TheSwamp
CAD Forums => CAD General => Topic started by: JCUTRONA on March 26, 2009, 11:56:58 AM
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What's the consensus? I'll have to make decision to upgrade or not (though I wonder if upgrade is included in our maintenance package).
Wanted to get opinions of everyone here.
Thanks
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I didn't see anything worthy of the headaches of upgrading (esp. from 09).
$0.02
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I'll be upgrading the office to it, mainly because it's a new file version (though everyone will be set to save-down to 07 file type) just in case someone sends us a 2010 type file.
Also mostly upgrading because one person is still on 07, three on 08, and I'm the only one using 09. I've finally gotten enough time to customize a partial CUI file to have a good couple Ribbon tabs for expediting and increasing use and ease of conforming to company standards and some tools to expedite detailing. Should be a good reason to get everyone to WANT to upgrade as well.
All that is nothing I couldn't accomplish with 09 though, so it's not really specific to 2010.
However, I have been wanting to mess with parametric blocks to see if I can come up with any applications where they'd work... but I think I may like to wait until the bugs are worked out to make sure no "surprises" come my way if I start using them.
Otherwise... nothing terribly impressive to me.
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I'm waiting for the MEP version to be released before making any decisions.
I'm still upgrading everyone to 2009 MEP yet, I have 30 machines to go.
Beware of the DIMREASSOCIATE issues for making dimensions associative again with the 2010 version.
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nope.
large corporations i have seen and work for have not upgraded past 2007
and there are just too many more affordable, more compatible and more powerful options available to do the same thing in the IntelliCADs. Not to mention Rhinoceros is the current all-star killer application.
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I have to agree Rhino/McNeel is an outstanding company and product.
Autodesk has been giving me lip service far too often instead of actually doing anything about the issues we faced with their last 3 deployments. Instead of fixing things they just keep moving sideways to trade the problems for a different set... It is getting annoying especially for the amount of cash we are paying them. It is absurd to say the least.
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Currently I have 2 bugs that are killing 2009:
Layer Manager crashes
Publishing Crashes
I'm about ready to tell Autodesk we want the money back for it.
I don't give a ^%$# if 2010 "supposedly" has it fixed.
They couldn't get it right in 2 service packs on 09 I don't want the sequel.
Let alone yet another upgrade of our systems and the wasted time installing.
I'm pretty fed up right now. :pissed: :realmad:
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me likes 2010
http://adskmedia.com/autocad_2010/ (http://adskmedia.com/autocad_2010/)
- major improvement is proper PDF support (finally)
- constraints seem to be an added benifit (if u like rotating your plans that is)
- ribbon is context sensitive now...
- 3d free form if thats your thing
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Has anyone found a compatible program to open a cuix file?
I can always go back and edit cui files with notepad, but cuix.... :lmao:
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Has anyone found a compatible program to open a cuix file?
I can always go back and edit cui files with notepad, but cuix.... :lmao:
I -heard- cuix is just a .cui in a .zip file.
Try winzip? heh :/
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Thanks that helped loads, WinRar opened it and it contains everything broken up into the images and individual cui files for each component group.
Pretty interesting, but the cui editor is slower than ever.
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Thanks that helped loads, WinRar opened it and it contains everything broken up into the images and individual cui files for each component group.
Pretty interesting, but the cui editor is slower than ever.
whaaaaaaaaaaaat... it got SLOWER? dude :( that's a pain. I hope it doesn't work out that way for me. I'm still waiting for my 2010
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You can download the AutoCAD or the MEP versions from their website online?
A few strange silly things, all of the XREF commands have XREF in them or their descriptions except XREF (shortcut in the pgp to ExtrenalReferences)
Toolbars disappeared after editing in the cui.... cant right click anywhere to bring them up have to go to the menu's.
Customizeable quick access menu is now in the cui and not just the workspaces.
Ribbon is still slow and no matter if you delete all references from the ribbon in a workspace it still comes back like a cancer after editing in the cui.
Blank and useless but it has to be there until I undock and close it. So I placed a ribbon button in the quick access menu to kill it.
Although I am debating about creating my toolbars completely as ribbons and doing away with toolbars completely by the time I implement it.
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You can download the AutoCAD or the MEP versions from their website online?
our internet has been crap, and I'm in no real hurry to install.
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*sigh* I hate Autodesk.
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I hated the taste of scotch too, but I kept drinking it because I couldn't think of a better way to get it down ... Then one day I decided if that was the only way, then I would just no longer partake ...
Off topic? Perhaps, but maybe not as much as one may think.
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This pig has lipstick, fish nets, chinese copy accessories, and 6" stilleto pumps, but "sigh" it is sadly a major resource hog.
I ran it on Windows 7 last night, not much difference in performance between XP or W7 as far as CAD software except the memory management is better in W7. My biggest dissapointment is that I can't get 2007 to run on Vista or Windows 7.
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Wooot.
This Friday I'm loadin' up ACAD 2010 on my new Windows Vista 64 bit Notebook. O.K., it's only ACAD Lite, but I'll write up a blow by blow account anyway.
I have a nice stable XP machine that runs 2008 just great. But I thought a little pain might be in order about now.
Bob G.
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I hated the taste of scotch too, but I kept drinking it because I couldn't think of a better way to get it down ... Then one day I decided if that was the only way, then I would just no longer partake ...
Off topic? Perhaps, but maybe not as much as one may think.
I'm strangely intrigued by this thought... Prophesy maybe?...
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... Prophesy maybe?...
Prophecy only of what has already come to pass for me but something others may enjoy as much as I if they let themselves. The whole sordid story is in my sig for all to see. Autodesk and AutoCAD had been a primary focus of my professional life for nearly 18 years when circumstances forced that to an end. It is now nearly a full year since I last fired up AutoCAD anything except for some minor archiving and plotting chores that are inconvenient using SKM and I do not miss it at all. I have trail versions of 2009 and 2010 vanilla and MAP along with 2009 Civil 3d at my disposal to keep my skills honed and I really have to convince myself to fire any of them up for a test run. I have actually put in more time playing with Bricscad v9 than the Autodesk trials and have been quite impressed.
My point is that there are viable alternatives to Autodesk products available right now (including some vertical applications) and their names don't necessarily start with "microstation".
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This pig has lipstick, fish nets, chinese copy accessories, and 6" stilleto pumps, but "sigh" it is sadly a major resource hog.
I ran it on Windows 7 last night, not much difference in performance between XP or W7 as far as CAD software except the memory management is better in W7. My biggest dissapointment is that I can't get 2007 to run on Vista or Windows 7.
You can install v2008 to run on vista with no probs...its a polished 2007 release and anyday better than the 2009 mashup ribbon interface
As for 2010 - its a bit slow *yes* but me likes it still :D
- nonassociative hatches have a boundary that can be stretched and conformed to the stretched region...
- the leader is a sortof dynamic block with pont move and flip actions
when saving down to 2007 format i did not notice any issues with the above enhancements...yay!
I dont really customize the menu as I have always found it troublesome - just use the workspaces feature and learnt command aliases...the command line is really all you need and good left hand typing skills... to be super productive :D
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C3D is different. It gets distinctly better every year. 2007 still-wasn't-ready-for-prime-time, 2008 finally crossed the hump where benefits really outweighed problems, and 2009 hit mostly-usable-if-often-frustrating. We're seriously hoping that the 2010 release might be the year we can stop calling it a beta product.
I managed to get C3D 2008 to install on Vista x64, but I had to hack the installer to do it. From what I've heard, the Vault 2008 doesn't work on Vista x64 (I haven't tried it) - that might be why Autodesk disabled the install. Because after I got it installed, it seems to run just fine (and many times faster than on my old XP system).
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Has anyone had problems with multi-line attributes going to funky locations when opened in a release that does not support them?
Is there a solution?
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Has anyone had problems with multi-line attributes going to funky locations when opened in a release that does not support them?
Is there a solution?
It'll probably be in "Service Pack 2011". :roll:
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Has anyone had problems with multi-line attributes going to funky locations when opened in a release that does not support them?
Is there a solution?
It'll probably be in "Service Pack 2011". :roll:
Nah... The solution is "upgrade". :lol:
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Just about to install my copy and play with it but since I and few others have just CD drives I copy the contents of the dvd to the server and then install from there. I decided to look at the size of the folder . Holy Tarp Batman is all I got to say.
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The first hard drive I saw loaded with AutoCAD (r10) was only 40mb and had 2 partitions because DOS 3.3 couldn't use a drive that huge.
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Well I installed it and I like the installer interfaced much better thought it was still slow. But that could be becuase I am under powered in both the Ram and CPU departments. :-)
Anyway I saw my first bug, the view pallett toolbar moves away form the pointer as you move it further from the Big A. I have two monitors and when on the second monitor it must have been 5 inches away from the pointer.
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Well I installed it and I like the installer interfaced much better thought it was still slow. But that could be becuase I am under powered in both the Ram and CPU departments. :-)
Anyway I saw my first bug, the view pallett toolbar moves away form the pointer as you move it further from the Big A. I have two monitors and when on the second monitor it must have been 5 inches away from the pointer.
could you post a screenshot - no issues for me n I have installed it on my laptop which is quite modest :
Core Duo T2450 (2.0 ghz)
1 gb ram
160 HDD
intel mobile G945 chipset for the graphics
Vista home premium - aero disabled
The installer does a take a good while - but I think its due to installing a runtime extension...
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I got ACAD lt 2010 installed on my 64 bit notebook with no problems. I wasn't expecting that. Yes, it was an incredibly slow load. I have to get it configured the way I like before I can really test it out. The first and most important thing I learned was how to lose the ribbon and reset it to "classic AutoCAD" format.
Bob G.
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I installed trials of both vanilla and MAP and found them both to be dog slow ... every step from the download through getting the opening screens. MAP was by far the slowest. Don't be so quick to dismiss the ribbon - it is improved over last year and evident looking at MAP there is a lot more flexibility in generating different workspaces for different tasks. The new parametric constraints looks promising for some applications depending on what kinds of drawings you are producing and your workflow. I would not have had much use for it in my former career but then I found no use for annotative text or dynamic blocks in that environment either.
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Don't be so quick to dismiss the ribbon - it is improved over last year and evident looking at MAP there is a lot more flexibility in generating different workspaces for different tasks.
yea its context sensitive now...
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Well I installed it and I like the installer interfaced much better thought it was still slow. But that could be becuase I am under powered in both the Ram and CPU departments. :-)
Anyway I saw my first bug, the view pallett toolbar moves away form the pointer as you move it further from the Big A. I have two monitors and when on the second monitor it must have been 5 inches away from the pointer.
could you post a screenshot - no issues for me n I have installed it on my laptop which is quite modest :
Core Duo T2450 (2.0 ghz)
1 gb ram
160 HDD
intel mobile G945 chipset for the graphics
Vista home premium - aero disabled
The installer does a take a good while - but I think its due to installing a runtime extension...
A screen shot of what? The pallet or the my hardware.
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Has anyone had problems with multi-line attributes going to funky locations when opened in a release that does not support them?
Is there a solution?
It'll probably be in "Service Pack 2011". :roll:
I beleive the versions really should be called service packs now :lmao: :ugly: :pissed:
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Don't be so quick to dismiss the ribbon - it is improved over last year and evident looking at MAP there is a lot more flexibility in generating different workspaces for different tasks.
yea its context sensitive now...
I am not dismissing the ribbon but I really miss my Dashboard in 08. I am missing my filters from the layer manager and the ability to have everything on one pallet in a compact form. Now I have extra clicks in process with large buttons that want to array themselves vertically instead of horizontally. Too much white space on the right of the panel. I would not mind if all the buttons were there but no. the extra buttons still are access by click the expand button on the panel name.
But hey this is the only second day of playing with it. :lol:
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You can customize the Ribbon.
If you wish that a tab had more panels to fill the empty space... then put whatever panels you want there :)
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The other thing is undocking it from horizontal menu format.
Set to dock view/ Anchor like a palette.
Works just like the dashboard on steroids.
Except it is a bit more resource hungry.
But, by the time I implement this I may remove toolbars altogether and exclusively use the ribbon for all of my customizations.
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But, by the time I implement this I may remove toolbars altogether and exclusively use the ribbon for all of my customizations.
That's actually exactly what I'm half-way through doing already. I'll still use the Properties pallete, for sure, as well as keeping the reference manager docked.. but otherwise, that's only one side of the screen with auto-hidden palletes. Not a biggie.
I've become a bit enamored with the Ribbon, tbh.
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I think that is exactly what the ribbon is designed for ... or at least the best way to utilize it. Remember the first year they included the dashboard? A horrible useless thing that allowed little if any customization - just like last year's Ribbon feature. By creating different custom workspaces and ribbons for different sets of tasks, designers and techs setups won't be cluttered with stuff they don't want and the grunts won't be tempted to fiddle with things they shouldn't. The old space hog toolbars can finally go away.
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I debated on trying it with 2009, but like I said, the resource hunger put me off.
Also I'll let the users get used to 2009 before I setup a workspace that throws out everything they recognized about AutoCAD. People need time to adjust. Not a good idea when they are buried in a year long complex project.
I will say , I like the fact the Layer Manager is now a palette in both AutoCAD and MEP.
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The old space hog toolbars can finally go away.
Haven't had a toolbar showins (or a menu) since a month or two after using the Ribbon... love it, too.
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I still haven't configured Acad to play with it, but I learned you can still access the command prompt from Windows Vista - a huge advantage for us ancients that still use dos for a lot of our routine filing operations. The young kids at work saw me setting up directories (folders to them) using dos. I told them I had secret access to the kernal of Windows and this is how I was able to do this. There's more than one way to stay ahead of them young'uns!
Bob G.
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I still haven't configured Acad to play with it, but I learned you can still access the command prompt from Windows Vista - a huge advantage for us ancients that still use dos for a lot of our routine filing operations. The young kids at work saw me setting up directories (folders to them) using dos. I told them I had secret access to the kernal of Windows and this is how I was able to do this. There's more than one way to stay ahead of them young'uns!
Bob G.
If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, you can always baffle them with your ... ugh . . . bovine scat! :kewl:
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... The young kids at work saw me setting up directories (folders to them) using dos. I told them I had secret access to the kernal of Windows and this is how I was able to do this.
:lol:
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You can customize the Ribbon.
If you wish that a tab had more panels to fill the empty space... then put whatever panels you want there :)
No it is more of an arrangement of current buttons in the panels to reduce white space. See the image. The part that bites is that I have to click again to get more buttons that are on the same panel. :ugly: It does not make sense. However it might be that I have the ribbon as a palette on the second monitor.
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The young kids at work saw me setting up directories (folders to them) using dos. I told them I had secret access to the kernal of Windows and this is how I was able to do this.
It's really pushing things to refer to the command prompt as "DOS"... I would suspect there are still some lines of code in Windows that haven't changed since the DOS days, except for maybe to upgrade from 16-bit to 32-bit to 64-bit, but overall it's changed so much that I wouldn't call it DOS. It no longer uses the DOS file structure, scheduling, user management, or anything DOS, really. The only thing that hasn't really changed is the command syntax.
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You can customize the Ribbon.
If you wish that a tab had more panels to fill the empty space... then put whatever panels you want there :)
No it is more of an arrangement of current buttons in the panels to reduce white space. See the image. The part that bites is that I have to click again to get more buttons that are on the same panel. :ugly: It does not make sense. However it might be that I have the ribbon as a palette on the second monitor.
If you can find a shape that, when stacked repeatedly, fits in both a horizontal and vertical margin, while STILL saving space in the opposite direction (horizontal bar saving vertical space / vertical bar saving horizontal space) then I'd love to see it.
Otherwise you're going to have to have two different configurations for the vertical and horizontally docked arrangements. The default is horizontally docked, as shipped, so they have arranged it in an efficient manner to be docked like that, as it's also the mainstream method of using Ribbons in applications that have them. To be different than the "norm" requires customization.
The Ribbon is pretty easy to customize, imo.
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some arx resources for 2010
http://www.maestrogroup.com.ua/support/GeomProps.zip
http://www.maestrogroup.com.ua/support/selsim.zip
http://pds13.egloos.com/pds/200904/19/51/iDwgTab2.0.0.4.zip
select similar routine that really works
the best mdi tb tool (imho)
info on geomprops
http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=90407
and it also works with quick properties
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some arx resources for 2010
http://www.maestrogroup.com.ua/support/GeomProps.zip
http://www.maestrogroup.com.ua/support/selsim.zip
http://pds13.egloos.com/pds/200904/19/51/iDwgTab2.0.0.4.zip
select similar routine that really works
the best mdi tb tool (imho)
info on geomprops
http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=90407
and it also works with quick properties
I beleive the SelectSimiliar command is still only present in the verticals right click menu???
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there are two or three lsps that do mimic the select similar routine. i first found one on lynn allens blog some years back. it works but not as well as in the verticals. the selsim in the link is an arx by some russian dude, and it works. it even puts select similar in the right click context menu, in both the default and edit modes.
btw all the arx files include 2002 - 2010 versions
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Thanks, I'll check them out ;-)
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LOL, yeah, I began making a default profile using the RIBBON....
Added 30 seconds to the interface startup using the ribbon.
Might be a cute pig, but it is still a pig.
The CUI is slower than ever as well.
Since it is simply a zipped package, manually editing has proven quite daunting to figure out whart content is where in the package it creates. Out of curiosity I went back to 2009 to see about implementing ribbon in the Enterprise cui for default workspaces... this created doubles of every panel in the ribbon, that cui editor would not let me fix it. I had to wipe the ribbon out of the enterprise cui, so as far as 2009 ribbon's are not a deployment consideration. 2010 they fixed this as well as the Quick Access toolbar in the Titlebar, but it is still slow.
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"Out of curiosity I went back to 2009 to see about implementing ribbon in the Enterprise cui for default workspaces... this created doubles of every panel in the ribbon,"
Guy in another office did this. I went and checked out his CUI and found that he had both his partial CUI loaded, and the copies of the content he put into his main .cui.
You sure it didn't create doubles because you told it to, without realizing it?
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In 2009 If I added ribbons to any workspace in the enterprise cui, i got doubles in my main cui.
Not double tabs, but double panels.
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In 2009 If I added ribbons to any workspace in the enterprise cui, i got doubles in my main cui.
Not double tabs, but double panels.
oops, yea, I confused tabs with panels... as much as I work with the CUI Ribbon I still get those terms backwards sometimes.
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I think I found a minor bug and was wondering if someone else has run across it. Wondering if it is a bug in Autocad ADT 2010 or a bug in me.
I like to roll with my layout tabs exposed so when I right click a tab to create new tab the creation of that tab is fine until I go and click that tab to activate it. I get an Unknown Error Code 501. The code comes with an OK or Cancel buttons but seem to nothing other than get rid of the error alert. Drawing seems to run fine afterward. Closed Autocad and restarted it and tested again and got the same results.
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Try running a repair once Krushert.
I use the layout tabs constantly, the new little buttons don't do it for me either.
Also check your aspnet versions.
They could be corrupted, I fixed one workstation removing and reinstalling the dotnet frameworks.
But that was the worst case scenario.
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Is it just me, or does this community constantly remind you that there is much to learn yet?...
This is me at 26 years of age anxious for the kind of education that only time cultivates.
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Is it just me, or does this community constantly remind you that there is much to learn yet?...
This is me at 26 years of age anxious for the kind of education that only time cultivates.
I'm young and always thirsty for more. With the way software and programming seems to go, though, there's never an end. If people know a language or software well enough, they'll just change it or "upgrade" it so that you need to buy the next one, and have another set of hurdles to get over.
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Well, I'm old and wish I didn't have to keep learnin' stuff all over again and again. Recently, there are all the new IBC Codes, now there's ACAD 2010, Vista (which won't run all the programs I wrote in GWBasic back in the '80s and still use today), MS Word/Excel 2009, and on and on. I still have to spend many hours learning to solve problems with all this new stuff just like back in school.
I guess I could just drop out of all of this. But ya know what? I actually like learnin' new stuff - maybe it's a power trip.
Power on, Young People! You're in charge, now.
Th 'ol Bobber
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WTF is up with this crap?
I have to UNinstall any version of Autocad on my computer to install Autocad 2010? Why the hell should I?
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Not true...acad 2010 will install in a different folder and leave all previous installations alone.
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Not true...acad 2010 will install in a different folder and leave all previous installations alone.
Not true.
It doesn't even let me configure the Autocad installation before proceeding. :\
"Select the Products to Install
|_| Autocad 2010 (greyed out from being checked)
Another version of this product is already installed. To instlal this version, you need to remove the existing version of this procut."
I don't have the beta or anything that I can find... I'm searching for any VAGABOND files or folders that may be overlooked.
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Then your previous installation was not done to the acad installation defaults. And if you keep changing the default settings you will always have problems. Last year one of the mods told me to stick with the defaults for installation. This year the whole lot went so seamlessly
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What defaults?
I never change default pathing, if that's what you mean...
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There was just something goofy going on.
I got it to work.
Installing now...
Gator left behind some garbage.
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Interesting...please fill us all in at the end of the installation
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Interesting...please fill us all in at the end of the installation
Either I, or the uninstaller bugged out with Gator, when I went to uninstall the beta, and there was remnant folders/files from the installation. I remember uninstalling it *scratches head* But maybe it errored out and I don't recall... *shrugs*
Everything installed fine.
I just misinterpreted the "Another version of this product is already installed. To instlal this version, you need to remove the existing version of this procut." and in my typical Saturday 'dont wanna be here' mood, didn't think very hard before making an assumption. I thought it meant he 2007 and 2009 that's still on here.
Though everything installed fine. Autocad 2010 is starting up in the background as I write this.
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mmmm I'm still intrigued that you had to uninstall previous versions of acad.....
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mmmm I'm still intrigued that you had to uninstall previous versions of acad.....
It was the beta of 2010 (code name Gator) I had to uninstall. Bit different. I am able to have 2009 and others on here, still.
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Previous versions of MDI Tabs will not work in 2010.
http://www.dailyautocad.com/autocad/free-mdi-tabs-tool-from-autodesk/
Go there for the latest version of MDI Tabs, that works in 2010.
I find it looks nicer in this latest version, too. It's smaller and more visually consistent with Autocad.
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mmmm I'm still intrigued that you had to uninstall previous versions of acad.....
It was the beta of 2010 (code name Gator) I had to uninstall. Bit different. I am able to have 2009 and others on here, still.
Yeah anytime you completed uninstall Autocad and want to reinstall it, you have to have to by the uninstaller and clean up including going into the registry. Quite annoying.
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I found that this version has to upgrade and save the AEC objects (created by verticals) to 2010 thus rendering them un-editable and sometimes untouchable as in the case of snapping to them. The rest of my office is still on 2008 ADT and I upgraded to 2010 and I used 2010 to open and grab some stuff from a drawing thus screwing perfectly good ceiling grids.
As quoted from David Kock on this Autodesk discussion thread. (http://discussion.autodesk.com/forums/thread.jspa?messageID=6160218�)
AutoCAD 2010 and all of the AutoCAD-2010-based verticals, such as AutoCAD Architecture, have a new file format, just like the 2004 and 2007 releases did. As was the case in 2004 and 2007, opening a file created in a previous version will promote all of the AEC objects to the new format. Saving the file with the newer release means that previous releases will not be able to edit the AEC objects, even if you "save down" to the previous file format. If objects from a future version are detected when opening that file in the previous release, then the AEC commands will all be disabled, including the Detail Component Manager. Even if your intent is not to edit any of the existing AEC objects, you will not be able to add any new ones or use any AutoCAD-Architecture-specific commands. That is the way it always has been, the way it is and is likely the way it always will be. (You could do a search, this topic comes up every time there is a file format change.) At least in 2007 and (presumably) in 2010, you should get a warning when opening the file that AEC objects from a previous release are detected and will be promoted to the new format, and that saving the file would make them unusable as AEC objects in earlier releases.
If your file has no AEC objects or you can live with the AEC objects exploded to AutoCAD linework, you could export the file back to a previous release format that is compatible with the version you would like to use.
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I find it less than funny that this issue, is really a 'problem' for autodesk's customers, however they feel no need to 'fix' the problem they create in the desire to force the customer to upgrade due to these compatibility issues they create.
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Previous versions of MDI Tabs will not work in 2010.
http://www.dailyautocad.com/autocad/free-mdi-tabs-tool-from-autodesk/
Go there for the latest version of MDI Tabs, that works in 2010.
I find it looks nicer in this latest version, too. It's smaller and more visually consistent with Autocad.
Does this version work on 64-bit yet?......
please disregard question:
MDITabs allows you to see and quickly navigate open drawings in a series of tabs along the top of the drawing window. ZIP file includes ARX files for both 32 and 64 bit versions of AutoCAD 2010, 2009, 2008 and 2007.
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I found that this version has to upgrade and save the AEC objects (created by verticals) to 2010 thus rendering them un-editable and sometimes untouchable as in the case of snapping to them. The rest of my office is still on 2008 ADT and I upgraded to 2010 and I used 2010 to open and grab some stuff from a drawing thus screwing perfectly good ceiling grids.
Note that "just opening a drawing and grabbing some stuff" does not render the file useless to previous versions. It is the act of SAVING said file to the new format that screws up the older versions.