Author Topic: Sharing AutoCAD menus over a network  (Read 8193 times)

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ML

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Sharing AutoCAD menus over a network
« on: September 27, 2004, 08:01:57 PM »
Hello,

In work we are creating a custom menu, macros etc., and we are going to roll it out in a few weeks. I have been testing the menu over the network. I have always loaded the menu files on a local ard drive but never on a shared network.

I was wondering if anyone has also done this and can offer good advice?

I removed the mnu file from the directory as it really isn't serving a purpose and it really lessens if not eliminates the risks of the menu being overwritten.

I have found from the tests I've done that if I make a change to the mns file, the other people on the network will see the change once they close and open, kind of the way an x-ref works.

I have also found that when I load the .mns that the mnc and mnr are re created and vice versa, if I have just have the mnc file in the path and load it, it will re create the mns and mnr files.

Also, we mostly use 2002 in work but we are testing 2005. I have found that if I load the mns in 2005, it doesn't want to load in 2002, so I need to then delete the mnc and  the mnr, then I can load it.

I was also wondering if someone had a good fix for this?

Any help with the above would be really appreciated.

Thank you

Mark

ML

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PS
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2004, 08:03:46 PM »
We have like 10 people that we want to map to the same custom menu

Thank you again

Mark

ronjonp

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Sharing AutoCAD menus over a network
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2004, 09:02:57 PM »
You need to have separate menus for 2002 and 2004+.  As far as sharing this menu, just make sure the search paths in ACAD show the location of your menu and menuload. Look for AcadInstall, InnoSetup, and IStool to make an installer to do all of this for you. These 3 tools combined are great for easily distributing menus\programs into AutoCAD.

Ron

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CADaver

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Re: Sharing AutoCAD menus over a network
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2004, 09:08:28 PM »
Quote from: ML
I have found from the tests I've done that if I make a change to the mns file, the other people on the network will see the change once they close and open, kind of the way an x-ref works.
A word of warning, when you re-compile the menu in this manner it saves the toolbar settings and locations.  Depending on how you're set up, this may "relocate" the user's custom toolbar display.

Quote from: ML
Also, we mostly use 2002 in work but we are testing 2005. I have found that if I load the mns in 2005, it doesn't want to load in 2002, so I need to then delete the mnc and  the mnr, then I can load it.

I was also wondering if someone had a good fix for this?
You'll need two separate menus.

andyanderson

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Sharing AutoCAD menus over a network
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2004, 09:11:02 PM »
For a primer on menus, go to Mark Middlebrook's site about menus at:

http://www.markcad.com/autocad/acadmenus.htm

He recommends that, first of all, dump the .mnu file.  As far as networking the menu(s), you'll have to talk to an IT guy who knows what he's doing.  AutoCAD has a nasty habit of looking at the local hard drive unless you path it differently.  Which brings up other issues such as support files, drivers, etc.

Keep in mind that most guys customize their menus to make them what they are used to seeing.  I happen to be a mouse guy but others are keyboarders with zillions of hot keys and, oddly enough these days, tablet types.

I've got custom buttons out the ying-yang that call special lisp routines that AutoCAD doesn't supply you.  I've also got a bunch of 3rd party programs that I can insert into my menu at the top.  I think you'll find that you will have a lot of resistance to try and 'standardize' menus for everyone.  A worthy and lofty goal but, alas, not practical unless you''re a control freak and don't mind hiring a bodyguard :)

Will my menus work for everybody?  Hell no.  Thank goodness.  I don't want everybody to be like me.  Now, you might use profiles so that people can customize their own menus while still retaining the 'original' setup.  But then why try to have a 'standard' menu in the first place?

ML

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Sharing AutoCAD menus over a network
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2004, 09:12:01 PM »
Yes,

I am aware that having seperate directories for both menus (it is 2002 +2005) and seperate pathes is the key but I wish I didn't have to update two seperate menus every time Imake a change.

I am very curious about these  installer programs, are they shareware? Can I find them on The Net? Do I get them from Autodesk?

Thank you

Mark

ML

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Sharing AutoCAD menus over a network
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2004, 09:16:38 PM »
Hey CADaver,

I have already covered that base, there will be no toolbars involved, all customization is via pulldowns. Whatever people do in their acad.mns file is their business, our menus have different names and are in different directories then AutoCAD

I have learned about bitmaps and toolbars the hard way. I can manage them but they are apain in The *

If you are going to do custom bitmaps and toolbars, then you can make a resource dll file I think it is called? You do it in VB but I am not going down that path. All Pulldowns.

Thanks

Mark

andyanderson

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Sharing AutoCAD menus over a network
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2004, 09:20:33 PM »
What are installer programs?  I use tools>customize>menus and insert the menu from the proper directory.  Now, with 2002 you can use the 'appload' command to load an arx program but in 2004+ you can't use that command.  There's a work around but I forgot what it is.

As an example of one of my custom buttons (yawn to those who have seen this a bunch of times) I use this to standardize my drawings:

^C^COSMODE 2303 DISPSILH 1 FACETRES 10 VIEWRES Y 20000 ISOLINES 21 HIDEPRECISION 1 UCSICON ON UCSICON N SNAPANG 0 SURFTAB1 12 DIMASO ON WHIPARC 1 SURFTAB2 12 DONUTID 0 DONUTOD .125 FACETRATIO 1 PROJMODE 2 SKPOLY 1 HIGHLIGHT 1 EXPERT 5 DIMLFAC 1 VISRETAIN 1 LTSCALE 1 FILLETRAD 0 DIMASSOC 2 PICKADD 1 DIMLWD -1 DIMLWE -1 UCS W HIDEPRECISION 1 INDEXCTL 3 DIMCLRD 256 DIMCLRE 256

ML

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Sharing AutoCAD menus over a network
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2004, 09:34:26 PM »
Hi Andy,

I really appreciate your input but may be I wasn't clear on a few things?
I have been customizing menus for a long time now, I do create support pathes, I do put the menus in directories under then C with no problem.

The person doing this with me is The IT guy but we are not talking about just putting the files on the network for back up, we are talking about sharing one menu file amongst all users.

Also, we are not, and I would never try to enforce a way or a menu on people. We are simply creating tools in one pull down that will path to all our resources and will contain macros to automate otherwise long and repetitive tasks.

IE   Inserting title blocks that are  attributed, inserting blocks to a scale factor and all sorts of tools that will stream line people's work.

I always encourage people to customize their environments how they want, we just want them to utilize one pulldown to its fullest.

As far as custom pulldowns, you should see mine  LOL, you think yours is bad?

Mine loads and runs VBA projects, Lisp routines, my own custom macros, it even goes to get me lunch  :lol:

Thanks

Mark

ML

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Sharing AutoCAD menus over a network
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2004, 09:39:02 PM »
Hey Andy

As of today I did get tired of the .mnu fiel and I did dump it.
i see no need for it anymore, do you?
If you do need it, you can do a save as with the .mns file and save as an mnu file.

I did that earlier, loaded it and it did re compile all the other files but still I see no need for the mnu like you said

Mark

ronjonp

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Sharing AutoCAD menus over a network
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2004, 10:00:23 AM »
Quote

I am very curious about these installer programs, are they shareware? Can I find them on The Net? Do I get them from Autodesk?


They are shareware:

http://www.jrsoftware.org/isinfo.php

http://www.istool.org/

http://www.cadwerx.net/?path=AcadInstall

And as for creating a resource dll easily:

http://www.users.on.net/johnson/resourcehacker/

Quote

A word of warning, when you re-compile the menu in this manner it saves the toolbar settings and locations. Depending on how you're set up, this may "relocate" the user's custom toolbar display.


The pulldown menu files and toolbar locations are not affected by this. Their locations are stored in the registry. I've been doing this to my menus for over a year now and no problems.


HTH

Ron







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SPDCad

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Sharing AutoCAD menus over a network
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2004, 12:32:22 PM »
A partial menu on a network drive would allow for you to have a common menu where all the work tools, blocks, etc can be found.  The partial menu also allows for the individual to have his own customized menu on his hard drive.
   I have set up the 10 cad station at my work to read a partial work menu off of the network drive ‘\Cad Standards\’ directory. The cad standards directory is locked and only certain people with permission can access the directory. Therefore the standard menu can not be altered by everyone. Everyone at my office has a their own customized menu and the standardized work menu to work with.

   I think I posted at one time how to make quick and dirty partial menus, unfortunately I think I posted it at the old Cadalog.
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Andrea

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Sharing AutoCAD menus over a network
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2004, 02:09:43 PM »
not recommended......

why ??

What happening when some one would like to modify a setting ?
What happening when some one would like to load another custum menu?

Also, you can not have same menu for 2000 2002 2004 and 2005.

so if someone work in 2002 and another in 2004 and the one who have 2004 had made modification on this menu....you have to make the same thing in 2002...see ?

many configuration have to be set with the !"/$% ICON toolbars also.


so if you really need to have same menu.......good luck !!

;-)
Keep smile...

TR

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Sharing AutoCAD menus over a network
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2004, 06:45:56 PM »
Personally I feel the best way to work with standard files is to copy the files to a users directory when the user's log on. This can be achieved with a batch file that's runs from the "C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Start Menu\Programs\Startup" (I have an example that I can post tomorrow if anyone wants).

Doing this way will make sure that:

1) Everyone has the latest menu's and programs.
2) You'll only have to edit the menu once because if you delete the .mnc file from the directory it will compile the same in 2002 and 2004.
3) You'll prevent file locking by users so you can update them whenever you want.

I'm not saying this is the best way but it's the way I like it.

ML

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Sharing AutoCAD menus over a network
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2004, 07:03:30 PM »
Ok, I appreciate everyone's replies. Ron, they look like great resources, I will look at them all, I am familiar with Resource Hacker but I am trying to avoid toolbars + bitmaps. Also, I do agree that pulldowns are the best way to go and that is what I have done.

SP, we both have the same ideas, we are developing a partial menu that will allow users to tap into all of the CAD resources we have with very few clicks and as effortless as possible. We are only developing one pulldown with all the macros we need, outside of that anyone can customize however they like.

At one point, I was talking to a friend about developing a VBA Project that would allow users to make a pullodown real easily, kind of like you can create a custom toolbar in AutoCAD real easily.

Andrea, in all due respect, I disagree. Every thing you are saying would be a problem if we were customizing The Acad.mns file but we are not. Our menu, is ourcompanyname.mns, it is not on local hard drives so no one can over write it and I got rid of the .mnu file as it is A, a waste and B. It can be loaded then overwrite other menus, so we are taking many precautions upfornt and this why I am asking you folks for input

Thanks everyone

Keep writing

Mark

CADaver

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Sharing AutoCAD menus over a network
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2004, 07:22:58 PM »
I too, must disagree with Andrea.  

We have been using common network menus for quite some time.  We have a default basic menu that is based on the ACAD menu that ships with the software with considerable customization for layer control of text and dims.  

Then we MENULOAD a heavily customized general tools menu with several pull-downs and toolbars.  

Behind that we MENULOAD discipline specific tools menus.  And finally we have a personal menu MENULOADed.  The PESONAL menu is kept on the user's hard drive and can be modified at the user's descretion, within guidelines. Each menu has it's own associated MNL file to insure support for functions.

So far we've had exceptional success utilizing the above concept.

ML

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Sharing AutoCAD menus over a network
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2004, 07:28:13 PM »
As far as I can see,

I ditched the .mnu file forever, I have the .mns, I menuload the .mns, all users load the .mnc file.

Whenever I change the .mns file, the users see the changes next time they open AutoCAD, it seems to work real well.

If you have multiple versions of AutoCAD, you place a copy od the updated .mns file in a seperate directory (folder)    ie  ACAD_2002, ACAD_2005 etc.

If you are replacing the old menu, then overwrite the mns and delete the mnr and mnc, they will be re compiled after you menuload or open AutoCAD back up.

Sound Good????

ronjonp

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Sharing AutoCAD menus over a network
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2004, 11:35:54 AM »
Quote

If you are replacing the old menu, then overwrite the mns and delete the mnr and mnc, they will be re compiled after you menuload or open AutoCAD back up.


This is exactly what I do. Same concept except the mns file is located on the user's machine and it is updated from the network via batch at startup.

:UPDATES LISP AND MENU
del      "%programfiles%\AutoCAD Tools\*.mnc"
del      "%programfiles%\AutoCAD Tools\*.mnr"
del      "%programfiles%\AutoCAD Tools\*.dll"
xcopy  "S:\-AutoCAD Routines-\Menu\*.*" "%programfiles%\AutoCAD Tools\"/R/S/I/Y/K/D/Q
xcopy  "S:\-AutoCAD Routines-\LISP\*.*" "%programfiles%\AutoCAD Tools\LISP\"/R/S/I/Y/K/D/Q

Ron

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M-dub

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Sharing AutoCAD menus over a network
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2004, 11:47:16 AM »
Here's what we do:

Acad:
Remains in the support directory on each local machine

Custom Company Partial Menu:
Remains in a directory on the network and the MNS is MENULOADed onto each machine.  Modifications are only done by me and if everything checks out ok, it gets added to the MNU file.  No one else is to make any changes to it because...

Personal Partial Menu:
I created a base menu with a few handy items in it...it's very small, but if anyone wants to make custom toolbars, they do it to their own personal menu.  I created copies of these menus that are named for each CAD Person and all related files such as profiles and things like that go into a directory on the network named after them.

We've only had one meltdown, but that was a long time ago...R14 or soon after the 2000 upgrade.  Bugs have been worked out and so far, everything seems to be running smoothly.

For what it's worth....

CADaver

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Sharing AutoCAD menus over a network
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2004, 12:45:22 PM »
Quote from: Tim Riley
Personally I feel the best way to work with standard files is to copy the files to a users directory when the user's log on. This can be achieved with a batch file that's runs from the "C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Start Menu\Programs\Startup" (I have an example that I can post tomorrow if anyone wants).

Doing this way will make sure that:

1) Everyone has the latest menu's and programs.
2) You'll only have to edit the menu once because if you delete the .mnc file from the directory it will compile the same in 2002 and 2004.
3) You'll prevent file locking by users so you can update them whenever you want.

I'm not saying this is the best way but it's the way I like it.
We just keep the standard menus in a network directory with limited rights and accomplish all the above without all the copying.  This way also prevents the user from changing something in the menu that is based on the client specific standards.  Were the menu kept local, the could have access, for us that's a bad idea.

TR

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Sharing AutoCAD menus over a network
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2004, 05:07:17 PM »
Quote from: CADaver
We just keep the standard menus in a network directory with limited rights and accomplish all the above without all the copying.  This way also prevents the user from changing something in the menu that is based on the client specific standards.  Were the menu kept local, the could have access, for us that's a bad idea.


The only problem I have with that is I can't update anything while the users have AutoCAD open.

And as far as them changing menus, it doesn't bother me at all. When the boot-up the next day everything will be back to normal <g>.

CADaver

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Sharing AutoCAD menus over a network
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2004, 05:22:48 PM »
Quote from: Tim Riley
Quote from: CADaver
We just keep the standard menus in a network directory with limited rights and accomplish all the above without all the copying.  This way also prevents the user from changing something in the menu that is based on the client specific standards.  Were the menu kept local, the could have access, for us that's a bad idea.


The only problem I have with that is I can't update anything while the users have AutoCAD open.
Sure you can, why not?  I do it all the time.  Once the menu is loaded into memory there's no problem changing the source.

Quote from: Tim Riley
And as far as them changing menus, it doesn't bother me at all. When the boot-up the next day everything will be back to normal <g>.
If it's networked there's no need for the re-boot to effect the change.  The next time you get out and back or open a new session,  the change is there.

ML

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Sharing AutoCAD menus over a network
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2004, 07:11:20 PM »
That is correct CADaver, if the users have the .mnc or .mns file loaded, I can change it anytime, then after it recompiles, the users will see the chage as well.

I am finding that the users having the .mnc file loaded seems to be best so that after I update the .mns file, it recomplies and the .mnc file is already loaded on the users machines via a shared drive.

Hey! I would love to see how you update users via a batch file, can you please post something? I use to do batch files back when DOS was the way to go but I have since lost that ability

Thanks

Mark

ronjonp

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Sharing AutoCAD menus over a network
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2004, 07:38:55 PM »
Quote

Hey! I would love to see how you update users via a batch file, can you please post something?



Code: [Select]

:UPDATES LISP AND MENU
del      "%programfiles%\AutoCAD Tools\*.mnc"
del      "%programfiles%\AutoCAD Tools\*.mnr"
del      "%programfiles%\AutoCAD Tools\*.dll"
xcopy  "S:\-AutoCAD Routines-\Menu\*.*" "%programfiles%\AutoCAD Tools\"/R/S/I/Y/K/D/Q
xcopy  "S:\-AutoCAD Routines-\LISP\*.*" "%programfiles%\AutoCAD Tools\LISP\"/R/S/I/Y/K/D/Q


:UPDATES BLOCKS USED BY MENU FROM R:\AEITITLE
xcopy  "R:\AEITITLE\*.dwg" "%programfiles%\AutoCAD Tools\DWG\"/R/S/I/Y/K/D/Q


:UPDATES SHX FILES FROM R:\FONTCLNT
xcopy  "R:\FONTCLNT\*.shx" "%programfiles%\AutoCAD Tools\SHX\"/R/S/I/Y/K/D/Q


:NEW FROM FOLDER BATCH COPIED TO %WINDIR%
xcopy  "S:\-AutoCAD Routines-\Updater\New-From-Folder.bat" "%windir%" /R/S/I/Y/K/D/Q


:UPDATES BLOCKS AND DATABASE
xcopy  "S:\-AutoCAD Routines-\WID Blocks\*.*" "%programfiles%\Watermark ID\Support\"/R/S/I/Y/K/D/Q
xcopy  "S:\Watermark ID Database Updates\wid.mdb" "%programfiles%\Watermark ID\"/R/S/I/Y/K/D/Q


:COPIES LINK TO STARTUP
xcopy  "S:\-AutoCAD Routines-\Updater\Auto_Update.bat" "%allusersprofile%\Start Menu\Programs\Startup\"/R/S/I/Y/K/D/Q


:APPENDS TO LOG FILE
net time  >>  "S:\-AutoCAD Routines-\Updater\Update-Lisp-Routines.log"
net user  >>  "S:\-AutoCAD Routines-\Updater\Update-Lisp-Routines.log"

exit


Here is a resource to see what all the switches (/R/S...) do for XCOPY.

http://www.computerhope.com/xcopyhlp.htm



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ML

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Sharing AutoCAD menus over a network
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2004, 09:35:57 PM »
WOW!

I need a translator  :lol:

Thanks Ron,

I sort of get the idea

Mark

TR

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Sharing AutoCAD menus over a network
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2004, 08:35:28 AM »
Quote from: CADaver
Sure you can, why not?  I do it all the time.  Once the menu is loaded into memory there's no problem changing the source.


The problem isn't with my menus but with custom vba apps. I automatically unload them whenever possible but I have some event driven apps that need to be running constantly in every drawing.

ML

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Sharing AutoCAD menus over a network
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2004, 06:26:20 PM »
I see Tim

So, are they Application or Document Level Events? What do some of them do?

There are so very good CAD users where I work but I seem to be the only one that brings any programming or customization to the table which can be a good thing I guess, except:

things like VBA are still a bit taboo to them because they don't quite understand it.

Once you understand VBA a bit, it is beautiful. There is nothing you can't do with VBA except write stand alone programs.

That is also one of my concerns with VBA, I would like to write more programs but it is a pain having people needing to load, unload etc.
I would probably wite a few things and put them into the individuals Startup Suite.

I wonder if automation can load and unload VBA Modules?

Mark

Keith™

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Sharing AutoCAD menus over a network
« Reply #27 on: September 30, 2004, 11:56:56 PM »
Quote from: ML
There is nothing you can't do with VBA except write stand alone programs.

You CAN write a VBA application entirely in VBA and then import it into a brand new VB application with almost no effort and recompile into an exe or dll. Forms will come in as designers and modules & code segments will come in as modules...you just have to supply the wrapper program to run it.
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ML

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Sharing AutoCAD menus over a network
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2004, 05:56:37 PM »
Well yeah, you can save is out as a .bas file, then import it into Visual Basic, right Keith?

In which case it is no longer a Visual Basic for "Applications" application even though the code is the same on either platform.

Hell! YOu know what I meant Keith! LOL


OK, back to the topic    :lol:

Mark