Topic: Things that make you go "Hmmmmmmm...."

[TheMaster]

First, have a look at this adndevblog post:

    http://adndevblog.typepad.com/autocad/2012/05/accessing-visible-entities-in-a-dynamic-block.html

Then, have a look at this Autodesk discussion group post (of which I wrote):

    http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/NET/Dynamic-block-question/m-p/2640949#M18132

    

No wonder Microsoft made that Paste button on their ribbons so big

Of course, their terms of use states that they have the right to use what's posted on their discussion group server. But, it is the deliberate choice of refusing to credit their sources that is what collectively defines them (ADN, that is).





   

[owenwengerd]

That is disappointing. I can understand copying your instructions to go along with the code, but there is no excuse for not crediting the source.

[TheMaster]

That is disappointing. I can understand copying your instructions to go along with the code, but there is no excuse for not crediting the source.

Thanks Owen.

That sort of thing has actually happened numerous times, but in most cases I didn't bother to even mention it. Perhaps that was a mistake.

[Keith™]

I guess they figured that two years is long enough for a thread to stay dormant before they use it as their own ... and the whole "Here is a question once posted by an ADN member" was probably harder to come up with than a simple "A question was asked on the forums" along with a link.

It seems as though they went through extraordinary measures to ensure that you did not get credit.

[Jeff H]

I noticed this about a year or two ago, and remeber thinking 'Holy Sh** they did'nt even try to rearrange the words'.

[Jeff H]

Was originally posted 2010-11-11
 
 
   ADNGhostWriter   

[SGP2012]

But, it is the deliberate choice of refusing to credit their sources that is what collectively defines them (ADN, that is).   

Seriously Tony? Do you really, truly believe that everyone at Autodesk is evil?<sigh>

Quite frankly your statement is downright offensive. But that really doesn't surprise me given your longstanding online behaviour.

I agree that Philippe should not have quoted your forum reply in a blog post without attributing the source. But to ascribe a simple mistake as some kind of Machiavellian move by Autodesk is just plain silly. You know how to email anyone at Autodesk if you know their first and last names. You could have simply emailed me, or Philippe, or even Kean and we could have put this right in a moment.

Now I'm aware that this has happened, I'll be sure to better educate my team members about accreditation, and I'll get the blog post fixed. Most of my team are new bloggers - and have technical rather than legal minds - so its not very surprising if one of us should make an occasional netiquette slip. I apologize that this happened. Perhaps you will now do me the courtesy of apologizing for your remarks about my team. (I won't hold my breath).

Cheers,

Stephen

PS Keith - FWIW That question was asked by an ADN member last week. I know this because I saw the question in our queue and didn't know the answer myself. Philippe searched for an answer and replied to him, and then decided to blog about it.

[Kerry]

Stephen,
You may want to look at ADN Knowledgebase :
AutoCAD.Net: Accessing visible entities in a dynamic block
Published date: 2010-11-11
ID: PL20100516-1

Regards
Kerry

[SGP2012]

Thanks Kerry. That was written by the same person as the blog post. The DevNote was based on the forum post, the blog two years later was a migration of the DevNote. The DevNote will be deleted when we finish migrating them all to the blog. The blog post will be edited today.

But that doesn't give me any cause to edit anything in my reply to Tony. He made an offensive comment. Will he apologize for it?

[Keith™]

Stephen, I don't see Tony's comment as being offensive. Although his tone can sometimes be acerbic, I think that is more a reaction to how he feels about this and other issues that have cropped up on the ADN, particularly where his posts are concerned.

I've told him previously that I support Autodesk's right to use its sites as it sees fit. What you need to see from the myopic view that is Autodesk, the actions of the moderators many times borderline on offensive themselves.

I know for a fact that given the current situation, I would have been livid with a blogger for taking my post verbatim and posting it as their own. Not only does the post lend credibility to the blogger even though apparently he needed someone else to figure out the issue, but it flies in the face of fair play.

Tony is a very knowledgeable programmer and although you and others may not like his methods of making his point, his point is nonetheless valid. You can't insist someone apologize for the way they feel. It wouldn't be genuine. What you must do is work to change the culture that created the problem in the first place. A good start would be to educate bloggers on being fair minded.

One more thing to note, if your bloggers are as legally inept as you claim, you may wish to reconsider your choice for bloggers. If they copy the wrong thing, you can expect that the liability will be far reaching. I'm sure Autodesk doesn't tolerate people stealing their intellectual property, so why should they get a pass for doing the same?

[TheMaster]

But, it is the deliberate choice of refusing to credit their sources that is what collectively defines them (ADN, that is).   

Seriously Tony? Do you really, truly believe that everyone at Autodesk is evil?<sigh>

Quite frankly your statement is downright offensive. But that really doesn't surprise me given your longstanding online behaviour.

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To: tony.tanzillo@worldnet.att.net
Subject: RE: How's things?
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:42:49 -0800
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Tony -

First - my apologies... I'll be back to you shortly after a quick conversation with our tech support guys...

Cheers,
Jim Q

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Tanzillo [mailto:tony.tanzillo@worldnet.att.net]
Sent: January 29, 2001 8:01 PM
To: jim.quanci@autodesk.com
Subject: Re: How's things?

Okay - Now that I've paid my $600 and joined ADN, I suppose it's time to
talk.

Tell me something. Shouldn't I get some credit off of my $600 ADN
registration dues in return for allowing ADN to distribute sample code from
my web site without my permission?

In specific, I'm referring to this document:

adn/members/techsupp/solutions/29475.htm

Quoting from that same document:

"...In the attached ZIP file, you will find a sample (DEvents.zip)from the
courtesy of 'Tony Tanzillo' <http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tonyt>."

Sheesh! And I'm paying you??? 


Best regards,
/*********************************************************/
/*    Tony Tanzillo     Design Automation Consulting     */
/* Programming & Customization for AutoCAD & Compatibles */
/* ----------------------------------------------------- */
/*            tony.tanzillo@worldnet.att.net             */
/*               http://www.caddzone.com                 */
/*********************************************************/

[SGP2012]

Keith - We'lll have to agree to differ between acerbic and offensive . As I said in my previous post, although this was one person's mistake two years ago, now that I'm aware of it I am following up with everyone in my team to make sure they all understand about crediting sources (moat of them already do), and I have apologized to Tony on this forum that it did happen. Can I promise this will never happen again? No I can't. We have staff turnover like everyone else, and people sometimes make mistakes. But if someone makes a mistake again, I will have them fix it.

That would have been the end of it, but Tony's choice to use this to accuse the team I manage of having a deliberate policy of doing this is personally and professionally offensive to me. That really hurts. There's a big difference between a deliberate policy and one or two people making occasional mistakes over a period of 11 years, and its not something I was prepared to overlook.

Tony - I take it from your follow on post that you don't intend to apologize for that statement. That doesn't surprise me. It is surprising that you continue to work with Autodesk technology if you truly believe what you say about the company and its employees.

Anyway, I've said what I had to say now. I'm off to catch a plane.

[Keith™]

... this was one person's mistake two years ago ...

The date stamp in the article is May 2012, so a little over four months before this thread was started.

Anyway, I've said what I had to say now. I'm off to catch a plane.

I hope you have a great flight .. I love flying!

[mohnston]

Imputing motive is what causes offense.
"deliberate choice of refusing to credit their sources" vs "not crediting their sources".

[BlackBox]

I apologize that this happened. Perhaps you will now do me the courtesy of apologizing for your remarks about my team. (I won't hold my breath).

Tony - I take it from your follow on post that you don't intend to apologize for that statement. That doesn't surprise me.

Stephen,

Respectfully, while you may be offended, and protective of your team, your requests for an apology come off quite disingenuous... Perhaps there's a more effective way to elicit the response you're after (though that opportunity may have already passed)... Especially, when you're the manager of the team that caused this little snafu, a public figure as it were, and represent ADN.


... Also, for what it's worth:

Code - C#: [Select]

1. //
2. // RenderMan, 2012, TheSwamp.org
3. //
4. namespace ForThePurposesOfLevity
5. {
6.     public class RegardingThisTopic
7.     {
8.         public static void IfItWereMe()
9.         {
10.             dynamic stephen =
11.                 new Autodesk.DeveloperNetwork.StephenPreston();
12.  
13.             if (stephen.IsNotPresumptuous &&
14.                 stephen.RequestForAnApology.IsSincere)
15.             {
16.                 stephen.MightActuallyGetAnApology();
17.                 return;
18.             }
19.                
20.             stephen.CanSodOff();
21.         }
22.     }
23. }
24.  
25. // Exception handling not provided
26.  

[Keith™]

I like it ... what a fun little piece of code.

[BlackBox]

I like it ... what a fun little piece of code.

Thanks Keith... Hopefully it is received in kind.

Besides, what's life without a bit a levity (and logic) every now and then? 

[SGP2012]

Yes Renderman - very cutting code, but it did make me smile (despite the jetlag) . Based on your logic, I'm waiting for line 16 to execute.

I was hoping Tony would reply, but I'll follow up anyway with a very simple offer ...

- Tony complained to Jim about a problem in 2001. Jim immediately fixed it.
- Tony complained about a problem on this forum 3 weeks ago, which I only noticed this week because he had chosen not to contact the ADN team to make us aware of it. Once I was aware of the problem, I immediately fixed it.

Those actions (and help I've given to others on this forum in the past) demonstrate that if you make us aware of an issue then we fix it.  But we can only fix something if we know about it. So, Tony -

- If you have a problem with anything anyone in my team does in the future, then please email me and I will quickly take action to fix the problem.

(That offer obviously applies to everyone reading this post).

Conversely, if you complain about my team on this forum again, then I hope that someone who has been reading this thread will reply to ask "Have you emailed Stephen about this?".

Here's some pseudo-code to summarize that (with due credit to RenderMan, of course   ) ...

Code: [Select]

if (you.WantTheProblemFixed) {
  you.Contact(stephen@autodesk);
  ProblemFixed = true;
}
else if (you.JustWantToBlowOffSteam) {
  you.Contact(noone@autodesk);
  you.EnjoyBlowingOffSteam();
  ProblemFixed = false;
}


[Draftek]

heh. Favorite Thread - EVER!

[Jeff H]

Stephen and Renderman,
 
Am I missing some dll's or what namespaces do I need to reference.
I tried both of your samples but could not get them to compile.

[Kerry]

Stephen and Renderman,
 
Am I missing some dll's or what namespaces do I need to reference.
I tried both of your samples but could not get them to compile.

Read the doc's Jeff 

[Jeff H]

Stephen and Renderman,
 
Am I missing some dll's or what namespaces do I need to reference.
I tried both of your samples but could not get them to compile.

Read the doc's Jeff 

Actually I get more information from the methods name used than what is normally in docs

[BlackBox]

Stephen and Renderman,
 
Am I missing some dll's or what namespaces do I need to reference.
I tried both of your samples but could not get them to compile.

Jeff -

Shucks... I'm awfully sorry for any confusion this may have caused you, or others.

In an effort to assist you in your request for the missing Namespace and assembly reference, starting with the latter, be sure to add a reference to Microsoft.CSharp in your project, and then add the following pseudo-code snippet (should be enough to get you going).

I truly hope this helps, as this is the best I could whip up in a few minutes (having never actually created a framework before)... Being relatively new to .NET, I am sure there's much room for improvement on my part. However, the assembly compiles fine for me, and successfully NETLOADs using Civil 3D 2011, and 2012.

Happy coding! 

Code - C#: [Select]

1. //
2. // https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQRzgHBKFOgt1WhWupkoO8YeHzusIlxY5zclfyC74pwKvwpFSAF
3. //
4. using System;
5. using System.Collections.Generic;
6. using System.Net.Mail;
7.  
8. using acApp = Autodesk.AutoCAD.ApplicationServices.Application;
9. using devTech = Autodesk.DeveloperNetwork.Organization.DeveloperTechnicalServices;
10.  
11. namespace Autodesk
12. {
13.     internal class DeveloperNetwork
14.     {
15.         public static string Country(string key)
16.         {
17.             if (CountryCodes.ContainsKey(key))
18.             {
19.                 return CountryCodes[key];
20.             }
21.  
22.             return "";
23.         }
24.  
25.         internal class ADNMember
26.         {
27.             public static DateTime AutoDeskProductUserSince { get; set; }
28.             public static string Biography { get; set; }
29.             public static string Country { get; set; }
30.             public static MailAddress EmailAddress { get; set; }
31.             public static bool IsNotPresumptuous { get; set; }
32.             public static string Title { get; set; }
33.             public static string Membership { get; set; }
34.             public static string Name { get; set; }
35.             public static string Organization { get; set; }
36.             public static string PrimaryField { get; set; }
37.  
38.             public Employee() { }
39.  
40.             public static void MightActuallyGetAnApology()
41.             {
42.                 throw new DontHoldYourBreathException();
43.             }
44.             public static void CanSodOff()
45.             {
46.                 throw new CanSodOffException();
47.             }
48.             public static void Says()
49.             {
50.                 acApp.DocumentManager.MdiActiveDocument.Editor.WriteMessage(
51.                     "\n** RenderMan and I agree, that \"Bow ties are cool\" ** ");
52.             }
53.  
54.             internal class RequestForAnApology
55.             {
56.                 public static bool IsSincere { get; internal set; }
57.  
58.                 public RequestForAnApology() { }
59.             }
60.         }
61.  
62.         internal class Organization
63.         {
64.             public Organization() { }
65.  
66.             internal class DeveloperTechnicalServices
67.             {
68.                 public static string FullName
69.                 {
70.                     get { return "Developer Technical Services"; }
71.                 }
72.  
73.                 public static string CommonName
74.                 {
75.                     get { return "DevTech"; }
76.                 }
77.  
78.                 public static List<string> Members
79.                 {
80.                     get
81.                     {
82.                         return new List<string>()
83.                         {
84.                             DeveloperNetwork.StephenPreston.Name
85.                             // others
86.                         };
87.                     }
88.                 }
89.             }
90.         }
91.  
92.         internal class StephenPreston : ADNMember
93.         {
94.             public StephenPreston()
95.             {
96.                 AutoDeskProductUserSince = new DateTime(2000, 1, 1, 6, 32, 0);
97.                 Biography =
98.                     // source: http://au.autodesk.com/?nd=public_profile&account_id=116657
99.                     "Stephen Preston has been a member of the Autodesk Developer Technical Services (DevTech) Team since 2000, supporting the AutoCAD®, ObjectARX®, .NET and ActiveX® APIs, and also AutoCAD OEM, and RealDWG®. Currently, he manages the DevTech Americas Team and serves as workgroup lead, working closely with the AutoCAD Engineering Team on future improvements in the AutoCAD APIs. Stephen started his career as a scientist, and has a PhD in atomic and laser physics from the University of Oxford. ";
100.                 Country = DeveloperNetwork.Country("USA");
101.                 EmailAddress = new MailAddress("stephen.preston@autodesk.com", "Stephen Preston");
102.                 Title = "Senior Americas Manager";
103.                 Membership = devTech.CommonName;
104.                 Name = "Stephen Preston";
105.                 Organization = devTech.FullName;
106.                 PrimaryField = "Other";
107.             }
108.         }
109.  
110.         #region "CountryCodes"
111.        
112.         private static Dictionary<string, string> CountryCodes =
113.             new Dictionary<string, string>()
114.             {
115.                 { "AFG", "AF" },    // Afghanistan
116.                 { "ALB", "AL" },    // Albania
117.                 { "ARE", "AE" },    // U.A.E.
118.                 { "ARG", "AR" },    // Argentina
119.                 { "ARM", "AM" },    // Armenia
120.                 { "AUS", "AU" },    // Australia
121.                 { "AUT", "AT" },    // Austria
122.                 { "AZE", "AZ" },    // Azerbaijan
123.                 { "BEL", "BE" },    // Belgium
124.                 { "BGD", "BD" },    // Bangladesh
125.                 { "BGR", "BG" },    // Bulgaria
126.                 { "BHR", "BH" },    // Bahrain
127.                 { "BIH", "BA" },    // Bosnia and Herzegovina
128.                 { "BLR", "BY" },    // Belarus
129.                 { "BLZ", "BZ" },    // Belize
130.                 { "BOL", "BO" },    // Bolivia
131.                 { "BRA", "BR" },    // Brazil
132.                 { "BRN", "BN" },    // Brunei Darussalam
133.                 { "CAN", "CA" },    // Canada
134.                 { "CHE", "CH" },    // Switzerland
135.                 { "CHL", "CL" },    // Chile
136.                 { "CHN", "CN" },    // People's Republic of China
137.                 { "COL", "CO" },    // Colombia
138.                 { "CRI", "CR" },    // Costa Rica
139.                 { "CZE", "CZ" },    // Czech Republic
140.                 { "DEU", "DE" },    // Germany
141.                 { "DNK", "DK" },    // Denmark
142.                 { "DOM", "DO" },    // Dominican Republic
143.                 { "DZA", "DZ" },    // Algeria
144.                 { "ECU", "EC" },    // Ecuador
145.                 { "EGY", "EG" },    // Egypt
146.                 { "ESP", "ES" },    // Spain
147.                 { "EST", "EE" },    // Estonia
148.                 { "ETH", "ET" },    // Ethiopia
149.                 { "FIN", "FI" },    // Finland
150.                 { "FRA", "FR" },    // France
151.                 { "FRO", "FO" },    // Faroe Islands
152.                 { "GBR", "GB" },    // United Kingdom
153.                 { "GEO", "GE" },    // Georgia
154.                 { "GRC", "GR" },    // Greece
155.                 { "GRL", "GL" },    // Greenland
156.                 { "GTM", "GT" },    // Guatemala
157.                 { "HKG", "HK" },    // Hong Kong S.A.R.
158.                 { "HND", "HN" },    // Honduras
159.                 { "HRV", "HR" },    // Croatia
160.                 { "HUN", "HU" },    // Hungary
161.                 { "IDN", "ID" },    // Indonesia
162.                 { "IND", "IN" },    // India
163.                 { "IRL", "IE" },    // Ireland
164.                 { "IRN", "IR" },    // Iran
165.                 { "IRQ", "IQ" },    // Iraq
166.                 { "ISL", "IS" },    // Iceland
167.                 { "ISR", "IL" },    // Israel
168.                 { "ITA", "IT" },    // Italy
169.                 { "JAM", "JM" },    // Jamaica
170.                 { "JOR", "JO" },    // Jordan
171.                 { "JPN", "JP" },    // Japan
172.                 { "KAZ", "KZ" },    // Kazakhstan
173.                 { "KEN", "KE" },    // Kenya
174.                 { "KGZ", "KG" },    // Kyrgyzstan
175.                 { "KHM", "KH" },    // Cambodia
176.                 { "KOR", "KR" },    // Korea
177.                 { "KWT", "KW" },    // Kuwait
178.                 { "LAO", "LA" },    // Lao P.D.R.
179.                 { "LBN", "LB" },    // Lebanon
180.                 { "LBY", "LY" },    // Libya
181.                 { "LIE", "LI" },    // Liechtenstein
182.                 { "LKA", "LK" },    // Sri Lanka
183.                 { "LTU", "LT" },    // Lithuania
184.                 { "LUX", "LU" },    // Luxembourg
185.                 { "LVA", "LV" },    // Latvia
186.                 { "MAC", "MO" },    // Macao S.A.R.
187.                 { "MAR", "MA" },    // Morocco
188.                 { "MCO", "MC" },    // Principality of Monaco
189.                 { "MDV", "MV" },    // Maldives
190.                 { "MEX", "MX" },    // Mexico
191.                 { "MKD", "MK" },    // Macedonia (FYROM)
192.                 { "MLT", "MT" },    // Malta
193.                 { "MNE", "ME" },    // Montenegro
194.                 { "MNG", "MN" },    // Mongolia
195.                 { "MYS", "MY" },    // Malaysia
196.                 { "NGA", "NG" },    // Nigeria
197.                 { "NIC", "NI" },    // Nicaragua
198.                 { "NLD", "NL" },    // Netherlands
199.                 { "NOR", "NO" },    // Norway
200.                 { "NPL", "NP" },    // Nepal
201.                 { "NZL", "NZ" },    // New Zealand
202.                 { "OMN", "OM" },    // Oman
203.                 { "PAK", "PK" },    // Islamic Republic of Pakistan
204.                 { "PAN", "PA" },    // Panama
205.                 { "PER", "PE" },    // Peru
206.                 { "PHL", "PH" },    // Republic of the Philippines
207.                 { "POL", "PL" },    // Poland
208.                 { "PRI", "PR" },    // Puerto Rico
209.                 { "PRT", "PT" },    // Portugal
210.                 { "PRY", "PY" },    // Paraguay
211.                 { "QAT", "QA" },    // Qatar
212.                 { "ROU", "RO" },    // Romania
213.                 { "RUS", "RU" },    // Russia
214.                 { "RWA", "RW" },    // Rwanda
215.                 { "SAU", "SA" },    // Saudi Arabia
216.                 { "SCG", "CS" },    // Serbia and Montenegro (Former)
217.                 { "SEN", "SN" },    // Senegal
218.                 { "SGP", "SG" },    // Singapore
219.                 { "SLV", "SV" },    // El Salvador
220.                 { "SRB", "RS" },    // Serbia
221.                 { "SVK", "SK" },    // Slovakia
222.                 { "SVN", "SI" },    // Slovenia
223.                 { "SWE", "SE" },    // Sweden
224.                 { "SYR", "SY" },    // Syria
225.                 { "TAJ", "TJ" },    // Tajikistan
226.                 { "THA", "TH" },    // Thailand
227.                 { "TKM", "TM" },    // Turkmenistan
228.                 { "TTO", "TT" },    // Trinidad and Tobago
229.                 { "TUN", "TN" },    // Tunisia
230.                 { "TUR", "TR" },    // Turkey
231.                 { "TWN", "TW" },    // Taiwan
232.                 { "UKR", "UA" },    // Ukraine
233.                 { "URY", "UY" },    // Uruguay
234.                 { "USA", "US" },    // United States
235.                 { "UZB", "UZ" },    // Uzbekistan
236.                 { "VEN", "VE" },    // Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela
237.                 { "VNM", "VN" },    // Vietnam
238.                 { "YEM", "YE" },    // Yemen
239.                 { "ZAF", "ZA" },    // South Africa
240.                 { "ZWE", "ZW" },    // Zimbabwe
241.             };
242.  
243.         #endregion
244.     }
245.  
246.     public class ForThePurposesOfLevityException : System.Exception
247.     {
248.         public ForThePurposesOfLevityException(string msg) : base(msg) { }
249.     }
250.  
251.     public class DontHoldYourBreathException : ForThePurposesOfLevityException
252.     {
253.         public DontHoldYourBreathException() : base("Too few arguments") { }
254.     }
255.  
256.     public class CanSodOffException : ForThePurposesOfLevityException
257.     {
258.         public CanSodOffException() : base("Jeff stirs pots") { }
259.     }
260. }
261.  
262.  

... You pot stirrer, you.

[SGP2012]

Sorry Jeff. I don't have full source code for you for my pseudo-code. Here's a video of a snail crossing the street instead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqrBYRCxy2E.