Topic: Civil 3D 2007 - W A R N I N G ! ! !

[Dinosaur]

Yes, what he said - kind of.  I started to write a response saying about the same but it was too poorly worded to post.  I come back for a new start and I have been aced by Jason - at least I was on the same page as he.  One point I want to add - Even if they need to have your points you can export them and send the point file and I think you can even export your surfaces to a LDT project and send them the dtm folder if they need that.  If they work on it and send it back to you their drawing is worthless to you except for their changes which you can block into your old original and go.

[Cannon]

And this is why no trainer/consultant worth his salt would walk in there without at LEAST a day of time just to poke around and see what you're doing.

I'm constantly amazed by people that think C3D is a one size fits all. Yes, there is a method to the madness, but there are some quirks as well, and a good consultant could get you past them.

[Dent Cermak]

Ahh, but there's the catch.    You're using LDT, which uses custom objects.   Try opening one of your LDT drawings with contours and points in plain-jane AutoCAD - you'll see what I mean.   The thing is, you're using a piece of software that is compatible with the MAJORITY of your clients.    What do you send the Data CAD client?   A DWG?   DXF?   PDF?      The fact remains that you can save a Civil 3D 2007 format file back to AutoCAD R14 (and further, I believe).   Yes, it's going to be lines, curves, and text.   However, if you're exporting Land Desktop drawings to R14, that's what you're giving them anyway.  So what's the main difference?   

Nothing personal here, I just like to be argumentative today 

No Sir, i beg to differ. When I save back to R14, I know to explode the contours to lwpolys as a matter of routine. They get a fully funcyional dtm file,points that work(I can convert them to point blocks if necessay, remember.) and line work they can offset,trim or whatever.
The save back from civil3d gives my client virtually noyhing they can use. I've tried. I don't like having to rework a drawing to make it useabe. Or are you saying that EVERYTHING posted here on this subject is indeed wrong??

[Dinosaur]

Exactly what do you need to send to a client Dent?  I am thinking that from your posts you need to send them a dwg file that might need to be opened by an AutoCAD r 14 or newer.  It also sounds like they need to have a dtm folder from LDT and a point file.  I would think that if their software can use a surface and points it should have a means to acquire this data from those sources.  Is there anything else in your drawing they need that is not a primitive AutoCAD entity?  If there is nothing else, a Civil 3D dwg saved as r14 or r2000 can give them exactly that.  I would first export the points to your preferred format and then export . . .

OOPS . . . now I think I understand part of your problem.  You can not export your surface to an LDT project when you are using LDT 2005 - only 2006 and above.  You can give them the contours but not a dtm folder.

It is still doable but you will have to install LDT 2007 (2006 will work also but that will be even one more program generation to deal with) and import the Civil 3D surface into an LDT project.  The dtm folder should be compatible with your r14 program.  From there strip the points from a COPY of the Civil 3D drawing, explode the surfaces TWICE to make your topo polylines and do a saveas to your target version.  There will be no proxy objects or ghosts of point blocks exploded into lines and dtext for them to deal with.  If they can not get the surface from a dtm folder or import a point file themselves, you can still do this yourself  for them from your old software.

I know, this is a huge extra hassle just to be using a fancy new program and then put everything back to the way you are sending now, but it is one way that it could be made to work (at least it should if I understand what you are needing to send).

[Dent Cermak]

CAN TOO!! CAN TOO!  I generally send the clients that are on LDD my entire project folder. Those on R14 and below get the DWG file and an ASCII coordinate file.
The initial posts here said that 2007 would not transfer back to 2003-2006. That it was not com patable. Has that changed?
If I am going to have to redo my drawings by jumping through hoops to get a useable , exportable product, I believe I will pass.
And it also appears that LDD will go away soon. My  latest disks came with Civil3D and a LDD companion instead of vise-versa. Face it, if they are going to stay in business they are going to have to chop off the old products at some point. This appears to be the first step.
There are other products out there that work on an autoCad base that do the same thing as LDD and do not require me to slip my big old butt through any hoops.

[nzeeben]

CAN TOO!! CAN TOO!  I generally send the clients that are on LDD my entire project folder. Those on R14 and below get the DWG file and an ASCII coordinate file.
The initial posts here said that 2007 would not transfer back to 2003-2006. That it was not com patable. Has that changed?
If I am going to have to redo my drawings by jumping through hoops to get a useable , exportable product, I believe I will pass.
And it also appears that LDD will go away soon. My  latest disks came with Civil3D and a LDD companion instead of vise-versa. Face it, if they are going to stay in business they are going to have to chop off the old products at some point. This appears to be the first step.
There are other products out there that work on an autoCad base that do the same thing as LDD and do not require me to slip my big old butt through any hoops.

Your arguments all fall flat.  You say you do not want to jump through hoops.  Fact is you already jump through hoops in LDT to ship projects backwards, exploding contours into polylines etc.  The real heart of the matter is you are comfortable doing things the way you know how and learning a new way is unacceptable to you.  I can take a civil 3D drawing and ship it back to LDT, I can give them polyline contours, I can send them an asci point file. 

[Dinosaur]

CAN TOO!! CAN TOO!  I generally send the clients that are on LDD my entire project folder. Those on R14 and below get the DWG file and an ASCII coordinate file.

I meant translating them down from Civil 3D

The initial posts here said that 2007 would not transfer back to 2003-2006. That it was not compatible. Has that changed?

You can transfer a 2007 Civil 3D drawing, but it will not be useable to do any further work in any version of Civil 3D.  It will also have proxy objects that must be dealt with as I described to edit any of their properties if it was EXPORTED to a lower version and there will no objects that LDT can work with as LDT entities.

If I am going to have to redo my drawings by jumping through hoops to get a useable , exportable product, I believe I will pass.

In you circumstances, I might agree, I was just showing a way it may be possible - not practical.
And it also appears that LDD will go away soon . . .

There are other products out there that work on an autoCad base that do the same thing as LDD . . .

THAT is one of the reasons I am also evaluating MicroSurvey that is based on Intellicad.  It appears to work well and the price is less than $1K.

[Dent Cermak]

Carlson 

Now I got two WIDELY different answers from Dino and nzeeben so I am totally cornfused!!
Anyway, with Carlson I stay on the AutoCad kernel. AND with these awesom data collector/notebook PC's it's even better. My understanding is that we are the first to put this package together. The people at Carlson seem as ewxcited about it as we are. We have 2 projects running now with what I guess you would call  our "beta" setup and it is running really smooth so far.I get a dwg file from the field that ALL of the linework shot that day is complete, including overhead utilities, symbols, and so far 75% of the underground utilities (If One Call would mark it all, we would have it all.) Plus I get a coordinate file.If necessary, I can create all of the line work from scratch with either the CR5 file or the FBK file.

[Dinosaur]

Carlson 

That too . . . Civil 3D has the potential to do some incredible things and can already do many of them.  It is NOT  however the right solution for everyone who sculptures dirt and fusses over making liquids flow down hill . . . at least all of the time.  While it is possible for it to do what you need, it may not be worth the expense . . . now.  LDT is still scheduled a date with the grim reaper along with its buddy Arch Desktop.  As much as anything else, the need for easy collaboration will dictate the timing.

Now I got two WIDELY different answers from Dino and nzeeben so I am totally cornfused . . .

I can usually resist anything but this kind of temptation, but HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

[Mark]

I get a dwg file from the field that ALL of the linework shot that day is complete, including overhead utilities, symbols, and so far 75% of the underground utilities (If One Call would mark it all, we would have it all.) Plus I get a coordinate file.If necessary, I can create all of the line work from scratch with either the CR5 file or the FBK file.

So Dent, what happens after you do your traverse adjustment or are they collecting from adjusted stations?

[Dent Cermak]

Phase One of ALL of our jobs is running the traverse, sight line spur points and establishing GPS coordinates on base control points. The traverse is run up and adjusted with least squares based on the State Plane coordinates back in the office only because we are control freaks.(if a LPS is on site, the adjustments can be done in the field in the notebook.They have a full set of the software.)
With the new system the real advantage is that the GPS unit is built into the notebook computer. Also built in is wireless internet, bluetooth and a Cingular cell phone. Once the traverse is complete and the GPS reading completed, they can email me the data directly from the field. We then can process that data and send it right back to their data collector. Now they pick up with adjusted data and begin the topo or whatever.
The goal is for EVERYTHING to be done in the field that can be done in the field. They are looking at the site so they do not have to guess how the lines connect. The points are entered and the lines drawn as they take the shot. Symbol blocks are added by the descriptor keys. Back at the ranch, i will receive a complete drawing of the plannimetric features and a coordinate TXT file. I'll take that, add my notes and labels, build the surface, add contours, spot shots and a border sheet and send it on to the client.

[Dinosaur]

That sounds like one sweet setup Dent.  I would sure like to send our surveyor out with one like it.  The whole housing / subdivision market is drying up fast around here and we will be concentrating more on small surveys and ALTA projects.  Everybody seems to be shuffling their property holdings right now and the ALTAs will likely be the only thing that will save our skins.  With all of that extra efficiency in the loop we they could get by with only me putting out the drawings until things rebound.

[Dent Cermak]

We do a TON of Alta's. We gave up on the closing loan scene several years ago because of the cost factor and liability issues. The lawyer calls and needs the survey by 3PM tomorrow. We bust hump and get it done. Then he goes into shock at the $185 bill. (WE had to do deed research and a flood cert with it too). Then he has the gall to charge the client $600 to walk across the street to file the legal description. (Usually a subdivision call out or a detailed metes and bounds thet WE prepared.)
Another market to look at: CELL TOWERS. Cingular, Verizon and Cellular South are going nuts putting up new towers around here. EWith our GPS gear setting up the site is no big deal. (They need lat/long for the C2 letter.) You can make a profit on these things if you get a system set up.

[Dinosaur]

We don't even touch a residential mortgage survey.  The boss' wife actually chases them out the door if someone brings one in.  She claims only about 1 in 10 ever pay the bill.  The commercial stuff is a different story.  We have several that seem to get sold every year or two.  There are few if any new improvements so there is minimal field work.  The only real work is rewriting the certification to suit the new suits.  Usually 2 or 3 hours work and we pop them for a full ALTA.  That gives a good buffer for when they change players and the certification has to be rewritten multiple times.

[dbreigprobert]

i just broke my personal rule.  I had a crash on save after errors closing file.  I said yes to recover the drawing feeling optimistic after reading the posts from y'all.

No dice.  "Unable to recover drawing"

Perhaps it is just my magic touch.