Author Topic: Why so many layers? (Read 3938 times)

craigr · « **on:** February 10, 2006, 11:30:21 AM »

This isn't meant as a criticizim as much as just for my curiousity.

I often get floor plans from other contractors with all furniture / equipment / room names / room numbers, etc... on their own layers.

There are often well over 200+ layers in these dwgs.

I understand the obvious ones like the furniture, room numbers, etc... But, they often have 3 different layers for a door, 'door swing', 'a-door', 'door case'. One dwg I worked on last week had every door with it's own layer! - That dwg had ton's of layers!

I always spend the time to move all walls & doors to my own layer 'floorPlan'. Then purge theirs. (These dwgs are inserted into our own, not returned to them).

I know that our industry is different from the Architectural industry. I am just curious why people are 'layer happy'.

Thanks in advance,
craigr

Greg B · « **Reply #1 on:** February 10, 2006, 11:46:46 AM »

Now where is that Monkey thread?? Hmm, might have been on a different forum.

Ok the quick breakdown!

5 monkeys in a pen.

Put a banana out for them and when they go to get the banana, spray them down with water.

Do this for a week or so.

Take one of the monkeys out and replace it with a brand new monkey.

Place the banana out.

When the new monkey goes for the banana, the other monkeys surround it and beat the pulp out of it.

Let it go a week.

Replace another monkey and the same thing happens with the old "new" monkey joining in the beating.

eventually replace all the orginal monkeys and the same behaviour happens even though none of the "new" monkeys ever experienced the water.

craigr · « **Reply #2 on:** February 10, 2006, 11:50:27 AM »

Huh?

craigr

Greg B · « **Reply #3 on:** February 10, 2006, 11:51:59 AM »

Basically some monkey set up the layering system and as new monkeys came in they adopted it even if it wasn't pratical because it was beaten into them.

MP · « **Reply #4 on:** February 10, 2006, 11:53:52 AM »

Wow, I posted that about 10 years ago on Autodesk's (now defunct) "Take 5" forum!

Quote from: Greg B on February 10, 2006, 11:46:46 AM

Now where is that Monkey thread?? Hmm, might have been on a different forum.

Ok the quick breakdown!

5 monkeys in a pen ...

Greg B · « **Reply #5 on:** February 10, 2006, 11:53:58 AM »

or

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3323/is_5_40/ai_n6071214

CottageCGirl · « **Reply #6 on:** February 10, 2006, 12:09:21 PM »

The other possiblity is that 3 or 4 stubborn people have worked on the plan and all think their way is the best way and just add to the mess. OR. they copy things from old drawings which bring in their own layers-- send them a note about the layer translater - it has saved my sanity many a-time.....

glee · « **Reply #7 on:** February 10, 2006, 12:31:32 PM »

Well it sounds like the files you are getting are a little layer happy.
A maybe overtly simplistic explanantion on my part. There are others who have written about this way, way better than me.
Architectural drawings tend to be used as the base for different disciplines. So the different layers are created so that when an MEP or PE or civil uses our drawings as a base, they can screen the colors of the x-ref by layer.
Plus we tend to use our plans for reflected ceiling plans (rcp) and sometimes as the roof plan. So we have the different layers we can turn on or off depending on the type of drawings we are using. Either that or everything is a separate file and x-reffed together and then somebody will wonder why we are file happy. So walls are a certain layer but if you are doing an RCP, you have to be able to turn off or freeze the doors and windows and then fill in the gaps with a header. Same with the roofs, you don't need to see a lot of the stuff below, so you freeze them. It's also why sometimes, people do draw roof plans on their own file. But we have many different types of sheets we need to generate, so the diferent layers help us control what is displayed. Some firms use their own layer standards, some have whoever draws it standards, some have no standards, some don't know what standards are, some use the AIA layer standards, some the national CAD standards and some use a combination.
Decent companies will have a standard that is available for everyone on the team, including consultants to use as a guide and understand where everyone is coming from. Ours was based on sitting down with our regular structural, civil, MEPS over a few days to hash things out. basically a standard based on consensus. It seems to work and everyone is happy to date. And since it was done this way, if their caddies complain, we never have to say a thing. They jump down their throats themselves.
Maybe when Revit does become the industry 900lb gorrilla, we may have this worked out. Then we get to create a new bunch of monkeys.

pmvliet · « **Reply #8 on:** February 10, 2006, 12:39:23 PM »

The fact that doors are on each of it's own layer tells me that some type of third party application was used to insert the doors. It all depends though...

Layering us good but at times I believe it is used in excess. I also believe that if a person or company puts some thought into layer creation they could in save lots of time, coordination and accuracy of drawings.

Each company will have different standarads and even more people will do what they want...

If you don't need any layering capabilities for the architectural drawings, put everything on one layer.

Pieter

TimSpangler · « **Reply #9 on:** February 10, 2006, 01:05:29 PM »

Well, I can explain some of it. (Maybe :kewl:) I once asked an Arch the same question and the reason I got was that, he used the layers to print differant thickness lines (like a distance thing) If it was important ie WALLS they were heavy, HATCH was very light, doors and furn. etc were med, and door swing, glaz (window glass) etc was light. Now bear in mind there were like 6 differant sizes for light, 6 differant sizes for med , and so on, it was all based on importance and visual awareness. Another reason is that it is alot easier to move 3 layers to 1 layer but it is more difficult to move 1 layer to 3. Also some of them guys use 3rd party or personally written routines that create layers automatically. I personally use alot of layers but end up moving thing around alot.

craigr · « **Reply #10 on:** February 10, 2006, 02:10:30 PM »

Quote

Also some of them guys use 3rd party or personally written routines that create layers automatically.

That explains why some of the layers make no sense to me - '40305800_DD_Base_1stFlPlan$0$x-wall'

Most of the time I can figure out what they are, but sometimes I don't even try.

Thanks for all of the responses,
craigr

jonesy · « **Reply #11 on:** February 10, 2006, 02:25:56 PM »

Craig, I beleive those layer names may have come from an Xref that has been bound into the drawing, by using the Bind option rather than the insert option.

PHX cadie · « **Reply #12 on:** February 10, 2006, 05:17:42 PM »

Aleast those are some good reasons, just opened a dwg to red line, (314 layers, all white except the text, yellow)
Think I found those monkeys :ugly:

craigr · « **Reply #13 on:** February 10, 2006, 05:19:54 PM »

Give those monkey's a spanking!

craigr

PHX cadie · « **Reply #14 on:** February 10, 2006, 05:29:31 PM »

What happens in ones cubie....stays in ones cubie

Lin-Z · « **Reply #15 on:** February 10, 2006, 05:31:58 PM »

Quote from: WannaBeCader on February 10, 2006, 05:29:31 PM

What happens in ones cubie....stays in ones cubie

Unless you take a webcam, hide it in some foliage overlooking your neighbors pen.. um I mean workarea... and send it out across the intra-net.... but I'm just mean that way

PHX cadie · « **Reply #16 on:** February 10, 2006, 05:39:00 PM »

Uh -oh

(People don't really do that, do they?

)

Dent Cermak · « **Reply #17 on:** February 10, 2006, 07:47:21 PM »

You want copies of the prints they have been showing around your office?

hyposmurf · « **Reply #18 on:** February 11, 2006, 05:32:22 AM »

I've pften thought of asking them to send through some kind of documenttaion detailing their layering convention for that particular project.Weve had some drawings recently that just consisit of numbered layers.You think youve sussed the numbnering system then find a whole bunch of entities that dont fit anywhere.When you have an incrredibly complex drawing with hundreds of dirferent items crossing each other it can take hours almost days just to sort their drawings out.Doesnt ADT create automatic laying systems to,thats why youll end up with an over abundance of layers in certain drawings.

PHX cadie · « **Reply #19 on:** February 11, 2006, 10:39:13 AM »

Dent:
No thanks, have Xerox's from the last office party

(I'm ole fashion, not up to the digital age yet)
Back to our regularly scheduled progam.....

CAB · « **Reply #20 on:** February 13, 2006, 09:44:53 AM »

I like layers for he reasons Tim gave & some of my own.
http://www.theswamp.org/forum/index.php?topic=2932.msg36845#msg36845

I do see drawings where there is a x-ref with nested x-refs which is confusing if it's not your system.
In my case I find it easier to keep every thing in the drawing except for generic details which I x-ref.

kentium3k · « **Reply #21 on:** February 16, 2006, 06:44:13 PM »

There are many reasons to use layers for different types of objects, systems, etc. As long as the names make sense and the user had a valid reason for placing things on different layers then I can handle that. When I get drawings from outside vendors and they have coded layers (like 5-A1-004) then I have a problem moving those drawings into my master drawings. If they are using some type of AIA type naming convention (I am talking about drawings dealing with buildings) then it is easy to understand what is what.

When I am making my own drawings and adding piping systems then I will use a layer for each system because at some point I will be taking each system and moving it into its existing master drawing. So if I have the nitrogen piping on the same layer as oxygen, HF acid, etc. it makes it much harder to grab each system and move to their own drawings.

craigr · « **Reply #22 on:** February 17, 2006, 08:35:55 AM »

kentium3k -

Quote

When I am making my own drawings and adding piping systems then I will use a layer for each system because at some point I will be taking each system and moving it into its existing master drawing. So if I have the nitrogen piping on the same layer as oxygen, HF acid, etc. it makes it much harder to grab each system and move to their own drawings.

That make perfect sense to me. But, I am also somewhat annoyed with the previously mentioned layers with names make that no sense, other than to the one that created them.

Then there are the layers that you absolutely cannot purge. Even after exploding everything.

I also don't understand the common practive of having room names, room numbers & the box that surrounds them on 3 DIFFERENT layers. I cannot put these on one layer for my dwg, because if I explode them, they turn to text that says 'name' & 'number'. - I understand what these are, but don't understand why they need to be on different layers.

Uh oh, I'm starting to rant, and that was NOT my intent by posting this question.

Honestly, I was only curious about why so many layers.

I am VERY greatful for any floor plans that I get from others, and tell them each time they send them to me.

Thanks for all of the responses, this has been educational and somewhat entertaining.

craigr

PHX cadie · « **Reply #23 on:** February 17, 2006, 10:35:43 AM »

I was going to take partial credit for entertaining portion till the "somewhat" sunk in

I'll try harder

craigr · « **Reply #24 on:** May 19, 2006, 02:34:48 PM »

Quote

We've had some drawings recently that just consisit of numbered layers.You think youve cussed the numbnering system then find a whole bunch of entities that dont fit anywhere.

I have just gotten a dwg with NUMBERED layers! It's horrible to try to make sense of it. Some of the dwgs have also been 'resized' so that 3' doors are actually 3" in the dwg. - I don't understand why someone would 'scale' a dwg. Why not leave it at it's actual size?

Oh well, it's better than not getting any floor plans at all.

(I'm sure someone could pick apart my dwgs also)

craigr

CADaver · « **Reply #25 on:** May 19, 2006, 02:40:02 PM »

Quote from: craigr on May 19, 2006, 02:34:48 PM

I have just gotten a dwg with NUMBERED layers! It's horrible to try to make sense of it. Some of the dwgs have also been 'resized' so that 3' doors are actually 3" in the dwg. - I don't understand why someone would 'scale' a dwg. Why not leave it at it's actual size?

Betcha it's a converted Microstation drawing that the supplier didn't know how to convert properly.

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