Topic: Legalities & Autodesk

[M-dub]

Hey all,
   I was hoping someone could settle an argument we've been having in the office about AutoCAD licensing.  With the recent slap in the face of 2005 and the fact that we are just now waiting for our 2004 LT in the mail, we're looking at our software to see how many legal copies we have and how many we're running.
   Our question is this:  Is the worker held AT ALL responsible for use of illegal copies of AutoCAD or is it solely on the company?

Thanks everyone!
Mike

[Mark]

I would say your company is in charge of policing their software licenses, not the user. After all you didn't buy it!

[M-dub]

I agree with you, but apparently, there were rumours around town at one time that the RCMP went into an engineering firm and lambasted the company with fines, but some of the employees were also fined because they knew they were using illegal software.  Anyone know if this might be true?

[SMadsen]

Just from one article on the subject:
"The law has also changed on the grounds that the company in general will not solely be responsible for illegal use, but individual staff such as Directors and Managers that knew about the copied software will also face legal action."

[hudster]

In the UK if a company is found using Pirate software, the directors of the company are held accountable, and face a jail sentence.

No wonder my company does a quarterly audit of everyones hard drive to check their software.

[M-dub]

Thanks a lot guys,
   We're looking at (trying desperately to) getting the bosses to upgrade our AutoCAD's and Microstations and to make sure that we have enough legal copies in here for ALL of us to work on.  Right now, our Microstation is almost a decade old...Was purchased in '95.

Thanks again!
Cheers

[Dent Cermak]

Understand too that your rules may be different than those in the states. My copy of LDD3 may be run at the office on only one computer. However, I am allowed to load one more copy on my home computer so that I may work at home. BUT, if my computer is used by a second shift I cannot load an extra copy at home. It has to be set up so that only one copy is being used at one time.
I have read that the European copies have a software locking device of some sort in it that we do not have here. Is the Canadian version set up the same way?
Our office rule is that you must be able to hold up the boxes, CD's and manuals for your seat of AutoCad or you don't turn on the computer. Each operator maintains physical proof of his/her liscense.
OH, the rumor of the RCMP raid is just that, a rumor. The RCMP will not be involved. (The horses would ruin the carpet and those lance thingies would really mess up the ceiling tiles.)
The company that owns us got busted a few years back. (Thus the rule of everyone having physical proof at all times.) An ex-employee called AutoDesk and 2 bean counters showed up. They checked things out and called in the weasels....uh, I mean lawyers. Off to court.  Twenty five thousand dollars later we all had our own personal copy of AutoCad.
Count the total number of computers and see if that matches the number of seats that the company has purchased of AutoCad and Mikeystation. If the two numbers do not match, you've got a problem.

[pmvliet]

That is true unless your running a license server...
We have probably 90(at least) seats of AutoCad licenses..
Every computer in our corporation has AutoCad installed on it..
But once 90 sessions are in use, no one else can get a license...
Same for Microstation...

As far you the individual users being prosecuted, I don't believe that would fly in court. Now managers and those in-charge who knowingly know I could see it happening. How is a lone user suppose to know if it is a valid license or not... they won't.

Pieter

[Hangman]

Here's a thought, ...  in case you were interested.  

They say, doing something is only illegal ...  IF you get caught.
Now the reason I say this, and I'm not trying to persuade you to do something that is illegal, it's to your own discretion.
But I mention this because there are two sides to every fence.   Now, having dealt with Law enforcement, (not on the wrong end of the gun mind you   )  They have the same mind melt, ...
The difference is, they have the badges which make them look legal, and they have the money to back them, OURS !!!

A lot of times, they claim that they are follow the law, but in reality, they are doing nothing more than spoofing you and making you think that your the one breaking the law.

Now, to the licensing of software.   If you read the license carefully, you will find that even though you pay good money for the software, you are not buying the software, you are purchasing a license to use it.   The software is not yours.   Knowing the definition of License, the PRIVILEGE can be taken from you at any time and for no reason whatsoever.

When 'the law' comes in and starts fining users for using software that a company had on a PC that is not legal (pirated), they are mearly spoofing you into believing that you are also at fault.
IF it were the case that the user had some power in it, then companies could not legally fire you for having pornography on the PC you use at work.  Unless you have some vested interest in it, the PC, the software, the desk, ...  everything belongs to the employer.   The employer is responsible for everything in the office.   Hence, the hassles that employers go through when expanding a business and hiring employees.

Now don't quote me on this, I am by no means a lawyer nor licensed to practice law in any way.  I just love to study it because I love making them squirm when they realize they've been caught in their own lie.  

[hudster]

A company I used to work for got caught using pirated design software when a student on a placement from college phoned the software developers technical help desk for help.

Needless to say the company signed up for a network license within days

[Keith™]

There was a case in Missouri (St.Louis I believe) where a person called Autodesk about questionable software. After a suprise audit, it was determined that they were using 10 unlicensed AutoCAD seats. Under the agreement between the two parties, the company was to purchase the additional seats as required by the audit, refrain from using pirated software in the future, upgrade all current licenses to the latest version and allow future audits to determine compliance with the agreement. This was in lieu of criminal charges. Five years later during a follow up audit, the company was found to be using pirated software again. The owner and key management people were charged and the result was fines in excess of $350k, revocation of all current licenses, payment for the unlicensed software they had been using and a court order for the company to cease using any and all Autodesk software. They could not even BUY a license. It nearly bankrupted the company.

On another note, as far as individual users being held liable for pirated software,  I doubt that would ever hold up in court unless it could be shown that the user knew the software was not licensed, the management was duped into believing that the software was legal, and/or the user was totally responsible for procuring and installing the software. I doubt this would preclude the company from liability, but it would make a strong case against an individual.

Case and point....
In 1996, my previous employer had 10 seats of AutoCAD R12, At one point I took notice that the serial number of ALL of the installations were exactly the same one. I then questioned my immediate supervisor about it. I was tol by him that his boss informed him that all of the copies were licensed, but they had done disk-copies for faster installation. At that point it seemed reasonable, however when a system crash required a re-installation of the software, there were NO installation disks. The computer guy was called and he came and re-installed the software,  but this time the serial number was the same, but the "registered user" was different. Again, my boss reassured me that it was legal and licensed. Later on there was a serious departmental upheaval that led to 2 employees leaving. It was later learned that one of the employees that left the company had photographs of all of the systems on and operating using the same serial number. Within a week of this happening, we were informed that if we were called by anyone regarding AutoCAD that we would be terminated if we told them anything other than we had fully licensed software, they even circulated a memo to that effect. I later informed my boss that if I was asked if the version of AutoCAD I was using was legal, I would tell them that I did not know if it was legal. If the issue was pushed, I told him that I would express my doubts about whether it was legal. Within 3 days I was given authorization to purchase 10 seats of the latest version AND see that they all were licensed and legal. I left their employ within 8 months of that episode.

I have decided that I will do my best to not be held liable for the ignorance or stupidity of anyone else. I call it like it is. If they don't like it I will personally call Autodesk on their dime!

If the company you work for will steal from a large corporation like Autodesk, how do you suppose they will treat you, your benefits, your retirement, and/or pay?

[Dent Cermak]

We had an employee who convinced my Boss that it would be better if we loaded all computers off one copy of Autocad, even though we had many legal copies. He said it would be easier on him when he installed Autocad on the RLS's computers, so that he would have to keep track of just one authorization code for all the instalations. Considering that I was of the opinion that this clown didn't know shiite from Shinola, I got my own CD's and loaded my own. He raised cain about it. Got the boss all fired up, po'ed at me until I asked what diffreence it made. I was loading my own, got my own auth. code, so what was the deal ?Computer Clown could not answer the question. Well later it came time for our subscription upgrades. They arrived in the mail. All 3 of them. We had 10 site liscenses. A quick phone call to our vendor revealed that we had only registered 3 copies. The other 7 copies had been registered by another firm.  I knew that Computer Clown had sold his old computer to this same company.He had also taken a weeks vacation during which, he bragged that he had set up all of their computers and trained all of their cad techs.I was surprised, because I thought that you could not sell you copy to someone else without AutoCads approval. Computer Clown had the whatchacallits to call Autodesk and get the approval. I have no idea where Computer Clown works now, but if you have a bozo in your office pushing that everyone load from one copy, watch out!!  Computer Clown may be in your office.

[Keith™]

I have seen him..... and he aint purdy

[M-dub]

All very good stories...
We'll see what happens here in the near future.

Within a week of this happening, we were informed that if we were called by anyone regarding AutoCAD that we would be terminated if we told them anything other than we had fully licensed software, they even circulated a memo to that effect. I later informed my boss that if I was asked if the version of AutoCAD I was using was legal, I would tell them that I did not know if it was legal. If the issue was pushed, I told him that I would express my doubts about whether it was legal.

...I'm not completely sure what I'd say here...  

Thanks guys!  Keep 'em coming though!

Cheers

[hyposmurf]

That would be the first thing I'd think if I heard computer clown wanted to use the same authorisation code,is this clown going to use the other liscense codes himself?Anyway heres some info I found on the net,about selling AutoCAD on Ebay :
AutoCAD cannot be resold on Ebay, the company confirmed Friday, prompting the obvious question. What other sales of software – packaged or not – can pass the licensing test.
AutoDesk said on Friday that, with a very few inter-company exceptions, it is absolutely illegal to resell a copy of AutoCAD using auction services like Ebay.

That's because of the nature of the software licence you pay for when you buy, or rather license, its software.

AutoCAD software can only be bought from one of its licensed resellers and there is no second hand or used market in sales of the product, AutoDesk said.

That holds true even if a so-called "licence transfer" is involved, and the terms and conditions of the original sale hold true.

Whether the licence agreements that software manufacturers make their customers sign is, so far as we are aware, not tested in UK law.

One reader told us: "It's a pity that the licensing scheme can't take this method of acquiring software into account. It's normal for just about all other property. What other property do you pay $3995 for the right to use but not to own or to dispose of? AutoDesk's answer to this is that you do have the right to sell it back to them for 30 days from purchase!"

But we believe many other software companies have similar licence schemes. All you have to do is to have a quick look at the agreement you made when you bought the software to see what the story is.

While AutoCAD is one of the more expensive pieces of software on licence, we believe that this rule may apply to much, if not most, application software available under similar terms. And some operating systems, we think, too. µ

[M-dub]

Ahh...the ol' "Everyone else is doing it so why can't we?" story...  

As Mom would say, "If your friends were jumping off a cliff, would you do the same?"

...I suppose maybe I would...if ALL of my friends were...........Lemmings!  

[Keith™]

...I suppose maybe I would...if ALL of my friends were...........Lemmings!...

Read this

Now just replace Disney with Autodesk and it all makes sense.