Topic: Text in Model Space or Paper Space?

[CAB]

Typically I create mtext in model space, just like working in that space.
But I am doing some drawings that require the vports in one paper space scaled to different scales so the text is now not uniform in size.
I don't really want to change my ways and annotate in PS but how to address the text scales?

You thoughts?

[mjfarrell]

Typically I create mtext in model space, just like working in that space.
But I am doing some drawings that require the vports in one paper space scaled to different scales so the text is now not uniform in size.
I don't really want to change my ways and annotate in PS but how to address the text scales?

You thoughts?

A Word
Annotative Text

[tedg]

Annotation scales? (err i mean annotative text)
but that was suggested before I hit the post button.

[Rob...]

Annotative scaling.

[CAB]

OK, Old Dog new Tricks.   

Let me get out the manual, I'm using 2006 vanilla you know.

Thanks

[Krushert]

I was at first not wanting to annotate in PS but when keynoting a drawing and the Keynote list is PS, I annotate the notes in PS.  I have grown to like it.   Only one text style is required. 


My opinion for annotative text and dimensions are a pain, for Architectural anyway.  Annotative blocks are great when you need to show the same symbol at different scales

[CAB]

Thanks for that tid bit, I may have to learn to annotate in PS as ACAD 2006 does not have Annotative Text.

Just that I have to go find the Tab when i want to read the notes.
When I do houses I put all floors, and disciplines on top of each other using layer prefixes.
So i just flip layers on & off to read & analyze what I need.

I'm doing a drawing for an engineer of a 60' bridge & the items on a layout can vary vastly in size.
One VP of the Road Approach & another of a small detail like a guard rail.
I suppose annotative text would work well in that case as the detail text would match the other VP.
Mostly the VP's are not to scale but sized to fit nicely on the paper. This means the VP scale are all over the place.

[cadtag]

PS notes work well especially when I going to be using Xrefs to assemble my finish sheets. (which is pretty much always -- notes or dims that are  appropriate on one sheet are problematic on others.

[tedg]

OK, Old Dog new Tricks.   

Let me get out the manual, I'm using 2006 vanilla you know.

Thanks

I think annotative scaling came out in 2008?
Which means it won't be available in your 2006.
 
*Edit* I see you found that out earlier, sorry for being redundant. 

[Matt__W]

Typically I create mtext in model space, just like working in that space.
But I am doing some drawings that require the vports in one paper space scaled to different scales so the text is now not uniform in size.
I don't really want to change my ways and annotate in PS but how to address the text scales?

You thoughts?

A Word
Annotative Text

Ummm.....that's TWO words.

[Krushert]

Typically I create mtext in model space, just like working in that space.
But I am doing some drawings that require the vports in one paper space scaled to different scales so the text is now not uniform in size.
I don't really want to change my ways and annotate in PS but how to address the text scales?

You thoughts?

A Word
Annotative Text

Ummm.....that's TWO words.

Did you really have to scream the word two?

[danallen]

separate layers for each text scale? A-TEXT-0048, A-TEXT-0192 for 1/4" and 1/16" scale plans?
then viewport freeze unused text layers
(if you don't have annotative text)

[mjfarrell]

do the annotations in model space

then use change space to move them into paperspace it will scale them for you on the way through the viewport
to be the same size

[CAB]

Oh, haven't tried that one.
Thanks for the tip. 

[HasanCAD]

- Copy text with difierence scale on deference layers then freeze in current viewport
- After finish the text editing CHSPACE to move to PS

[CAB]

Yes, that is the likely conclusion. The Layering I am use to.
Change Space is the ticket to PS text as I like to annotate in MS.

Next week I'll give it a real test on my project.

Thanks

[ChrisCarlson]

do the annotations in model space

then use change space to move them into paperspace it will scale them for you on the way through the viewport
to be the same size

Shouldn't this be the other way, eg annotate in PS then chspace to the desired VP?

[mjfarrell]

unlike me - it is Bi-directional so it doesn't really matter how one employs it.

[Rob...]

do the annotations in model space

then use change space to move them into paperspace it will scale them for you on the way through the viewport
to be the same size

Shouldn't this be the other way, eg annotate in PS then chspace to the desired VP?

He's got a point there. That way the viewport determines the model space text height for those not to scale viewports. Do one of each type of annotation in paper space, use CHSPACE, switch to model space, and then copy for additional items.

On a side note, all these different types of spaces makes me think of the parallel universe Star Trek episodes and movies.

[mjfarrell]

do the annotations in model space

then use change space to move them into paperspace it will scale them for you on the way through the viewport
to be the same size

Shouldn't this be the other way, eg annotate in PS then chspace to the desired VP?

He's got a point there. That way the viewport determines the model space text height for those not to scale viewports. Do one of each type of annotation in paper space, use CHSPACE, switch to model space, and then copy for additional items.

On a side note, all these different types of spaces makes me think of the parallel universe Star Trek episodes and movies.

unlike me - it is Bi-directional so it doesn't really matter how one employs it.

[CAB]

OK ACAD 2006 does not have annotative text so I use CHSpace after sizing the Model space text.
Picking 0.8 as my target text height in PS I divided by the VP scale to get MS text height.
So made text in MS at that text height & then CHspace to put it in PS.
On this job the details did not appear in other places so only one set of text to deal with.

The only gotcha is that during this phase (90% complete) he picked a busy layout and said make this detail smaller and this one larger yada yada yada
So the text was the correct (all uniform in size, that's the rule) just had to reposition to fit the resized detail.
If in MS I would have to resize all the text & arrow heads to match the new VP scale.

Conclusion is that for this particular client annotative text would be a plus.
This is the only client I have with these requirements.

Thanks for all the comments.

[Jeff H]

I think in 2006 will work and maybe only for dimensions maybe for mleaders if 2006 has them, but DIMASSOC 2 will move with model in paperspace, and also maybe for  dimensions adding through viewport in paperspace will automagiclly scale for you.

[mjfarrell]

In summary the TOOL is the solution that he needed, irrespective of how one applies that particular TOOL.

[Rob...]

Brilliant!!!

[hermanm]

A little late to the party, but perhaps this:

http://www.tktn.com/utilities/rescale.lsp

would help.

[CAB]

Interesting, I'll try it out but today is too busy with work.

[DIW_CADtech]

I work with a municipality that wants EVERYTHING but their titleblock and documentation stamps in Model Space. this is very problematic while designing.  So tipically I do all my anotation in PSPACE making sure that all the annotaions are NOT ANNOTATIVE.  They do not allow for XREF's, so XREFS are already embedded/biinded just prior to this opperation so no annotation creeps into other DWGs. Then , I go through the drawings and push all annotations from PS to model space via CHSPACE.  This makes them happy. 

I find when I use annotative text, my DWG sizes start to explode because of all the different annotative scales.  It can easilly get out of control, if your not used to it.  If your doing 100 DWGs or less.. the above method isn't bad.   If your doing 100's of drawings, take some time to learn how to efficiently use the annotative TEXT, DIMS, and Leaders.  Then you don't have to go back.  And it's very easy in your referenced drawings to just freeze the annotation layer of your xrefs in your viewports. Once done.. it's no longer an issue.

[CAB]

A little late to the party, but perhaps this:

http://www.tktn.com/utilities/rescale.lsp

would help.

Herman that does a splendid job. Well done and over a decade ago. 
We now have access to CustomScale value via vlisp so [desired PS size] / [CustomScale] = MS text size needed.
I'll likely use some of your code in my automation routine when I add that to my Text Tool Lisp.
I will have to update Leaders & Dims too to match the text.

Thanks for you input.

[CAB]

I work with a municipality that wants EVERYTHING but their titleblock and documentation stamps in Model Space. this is very problematic while designing.  So tipically I do all my anotation in PSPACE making sure that all the annotaions are NOT ANNOTATIVE.  They do not allow for XREF's, so XREFS are already embedded/biinded just prior to this opperation so no annotation creeps into other DWGs. Then , I go through the drawings and push all annotations from PS to model space via CHSPACE.  This makes them happy. 

I find when I use annotative text, my DWG sizes start to explode because of all the different annotative scales.  It can easilly get out of control, if your not used to it.  If your doing 100 DWGs or less.. the above method isn't bad.   If your doing 100's of drawings, take some time to learn how to efficiently use the annotative TEXT, DIMS, and Leaders.  Then you don't have to go back.  And it's very easy in your referenced drawings to just freeze the annotation layer of your xrefs in your viewports. Once done.. it's no longer an issue.

I have no annotative in 2006 but may upgrade to a newer version before too long.

The CHSPACE works well when I need to reuse a detail in another layout and the scale is not the same.
I see that annotative was made for just such a situation.

[hermanm]

@ CAB

Glad to help.

More similar code here:

http://www.tktn.com/utilities/tkutil.htm

rescalb.lsp
ldrupd.lsp
ntext.lsp

may be of interest (use as is, or use as inspiration for your own work)
Yes, it is all "old code," dating from the days of DOS ACAD.

As Luis would say, "Have fun."

[JONTHEPOPE]

I lock paper space and draw in model space from paper space.

It can crash sometimes crash when you edit a x-reference in place twice.

[ChrisCarlson]

I work with a municipality that wants EVERYTHING but their titleblock and documentation stamps in Model Space. this is very problematic while designing.  So tipically I do all my anotation in PSPACE making sure that all the annotaions are NOT ANNOTATIVE.  They do not allow for XREF's, so XREFS are already embedded/biinded just prior to this opperation so no annotation creeps into other DWGs. Then , I go through the drawings and push all annotations from PS to model space via CHSPACE.  This makes them happy. 

I find when I use annotative text, my DWG sizes start to explode because of all the different annotative scales.  It can easilly get out of control, if your not used to it.  If your doing 100 DWGs or less.. the above method isn't bad.   If your doing 100's of drawings, take some time to learn how to efficiently use the annotative TEXT, DIMS, and Leaders.  Then you don't have to go back.  And it's very easy in your referenced drawings to just freeze the annotation layer of your xrefs in your viewports. Once done.. it's no longer an issue.

I have no annotative in 2006 but may upgrade to a newer version before too long.

The CHSPACE works well when I need to reuse a detail in another layout and the scale is not the same.
I see that annotative was made for just such a situation.

Are your details set to a scale? Over here we only have 3 scales for details and our text is supposed to always print at 3/32" so remembering 3 different model space heights isn't too complicated.

[CAB]

Unfortunately no set scale. The engineer who decides is more concerned with the presentation look of the page.
So he will say make this one a little larger & this one a little smaller. We work on 11"x17" sheets so crowding is an issue too.
Uniformity of text size is his big focus. He has me tweaking line weights and arrow head size often.
 

[mjfarrell]

Unfortunately no set scale. The engineer who decides is more concerned with the presentation look of the page.
So he will say make this one a little larger & this one a little smaller. We work on 11"x17" sheets so crowding is an issue too.
Uniformity of text size is his big focus. He has me tweaking line weights and arrow head size often.

TWEAKERS!

[Mark]

Unfortunately no set scale. The engineer who decides is more concerned with the presentation look of the page.
So he will say make this one a little larger & this one a little smaller. We work on 11"x17" sheets so crowding is an issue too.
Uniformity of text size is his big focus. He has me tweaking line weights and arrow head size often.

TWEAKERS!

CLIENTS!

[Bethrine]

Just FYI, scaling appears difficult up front but once you wrap your head around it and practice a bit it gets super easy.

CHSPACE, who knew? I learn something new here every day. Yay! This is much faster and requires less thought.