Topic: Making software choices and want to open a dialog..

[Dent Cermak]

I just got through with Carlson College and will also try to answer what I can. We use Carlson SurvCE in the field and it works well. The major difference I see between Carlson and LDD is Carlson is definitely a Surveyor's tool, where LDD is tweaked for draftsmen. It allows a little more finesse to the finished product. Most surveyors using the package are not real concerned about the details we drafters look at, so in some areas Carlson initially appears a little cumbersome. Configuring your setup is actually made a little more confusing by being so open structured. For an anal retentive drafter it can get mind boggling. Contouring is pretty neat in it though.
Looking at the latest trends at AutoDesk, Carlson may soon become your only option. LDD is being swallowed up by programmers that think there really is such a thing as "major" and 'minor" contours. No REAL cartographic drafter would ever utter such blasphemy!!
It is very different in its approach to survey drafting than LDD. I strongly recommend spending the training funds on Carlson College, either at the home location in Front Royal, Virginia (a really neat little town!) or at one of their numerous training seminars. The "train at your work site" option is a bit expensive, but if you can afford it, training at home can be a good thing too.
Check out the website or call them at 1-800-989-5028. (local No. 540-635-6742) And no, I do not work for them, just enjoyed the class.


http://www.carlsonsw.com/PL_CS_Civil.html

[Dent Cermak]

looks scary, if they truly allow you to modify contours....
how do they maintain fidelity to the underlying data is my first question?
followed quickly by, what kind of edits are allowed?

That's where you find LDD's edit commands. (Delete point, add a line, etc.). They just call it different stuff. And they have fewer options than LDD, although, the missing commands are the ones I never use.
I edit ALL of my contours. I have NEVER had them come in correctly the first time in all my years using AutoCad. You always have to edit the contours. Again, they just are calling it something different. Their terminology is more "Surveyor" and less "Drafter".

[Dent Cermak]

I still see a(n) Edit contour command lurking there....

Irrespective of how the contour is derived, I'm not a fan of altering them, without that change coming about by adjusting the underlying data from which they originate, is all.  And it would seem that giving one the ability to edit them would lead to performing that type of edit, instead of what would be considered the most correct way of doing so.

Again, after dragging contours for over 40 years, they NEVER come in right the first time, regardless of how good the field work is. You always have to add stuff to make it follow a ditch breakline, a curb line, the crown of the roads, etc. The shots are there, but the algorithm gives 3 solutions for each point, so sometimes you have to help it out. Well, actually, most times. Editing the TINN will always be with us. That is the way to adjust contours. It is not talking abou adjusting a polyline to fit like you used to have to do. It's all done with the points, breaklines and TINN, just as in LDD.

[mjfarrell]

Represented Contour Interval, does that terminology work for you then?


sounds like your survey field practice needs to be adjusted to work better with the figures/breaklines command the better that data is collected the less you need ever edit the resulting triangles

[Dent Cermak]

And I would like to know if we can add Carson Civil/Survey to the swamp under Land Lubber without a big brew ha ha

Of course! This site isn't dedicate to any one program.

Mark, If you can get this set-up, I will contact Darryl Bowser at Carlson and see if maybe he, or one of the other Carlson types, would log on from time to time to answer questions. It would help the users here and it won't hurt Carlson one bit. They might even like having a place to twend to this. Their on site forum is a bit dead.

[Mark]

And I would like to know if we can add Carson Civil/Survey to the swamp under Land Lubber without a big brew ha ha

Of course! This site isn't dedicate to any one program.

Mark, If you can get this set-up, I will contact Darryl Bowser at Carlson and see if maybe he, or one of the other Carlson types, would log on from time to time to answer questions. It would help the users here and it won't hurt Carlson one bit. They might even like having a place to twend to this. Their on site forum is a bit dead.

There ya go!

http://www.theswamp.org/index.php?board=69.0

[Dent Cermak]

Represented Contour Interval, does that terminology work for you then?


sounds like your survey field practice needs to be adjusted to work better with the figures/breaklines command the better that data is collected the less you need ever edit the resulting triangles

Not at all. Our guys do an awesome job in the field, but as I said any tin has a 1 in 3 chance of being right the first time. Now sure, sometimes we could use more shots but (1) the trees get in the way down here and (2) the client will not pay for that kind of field time. We have to run a grid equal to scale (a 1"=30' drawing will be a shot every 30 feet + 'breaks") in order to get a cost effective proposal out. Based on that, I do not know of any crews that can do a better job than the ones we have and our figure prefix library and descriptor keys work just fine. Now if I could get a shot every 5 feet, that would be much better, but that ain't ever gonna happen in the real world. not and get paid for anyway.

[Dent Cermak]

And I would like to know if we can add Carson Civil/Survey to the swamp under Land Lubber without a big brew ha ha

Of course! This site isn't dedicate to any one program.

Mark, If you can get this set-up, I will contact Darryl Bowser at Carlson and see if maybe he, or one of the other Carlson types, would log on from time to time to answer questions. It would help the users here and it won't hurt Carlson one bit. They might even like having a place to twend to this. Their on site forum is a bit dead.

There ya go!

http://www.theswamp.org/index.php?board=69.0

I'll send him an email tonight and see what I can set up. Time these dodos learn about The Swamp!!

[mjfarrell]

I would enjoy seeing a typical field book file or two....

[Swift]

Dent has a valid point, Micheal does too

The key is spacing of points along breaklines

Carlson also provides methods of editing the TIN, I've posted about them here but they lack a key feature or two

[Dent Cermak]

Yeah, they took a short cut or two, but they do have the equivalent of flip face, add a line, delete a line, add a point and delete a point, which is about all I use. They have a routine for the curb line breaklines that I use and do it actually a little more accurately, but I haven't had a chance to get into it yet. It's like I said before, it looks like where they are now is sufficient for a quick job for a Surveyor but still a little shy on the tools a drafter wants. They are getting there though.
I have sent the email to Darryl Bowser to see if he would like to play here and give us the info some are asking for. Carlson has a discussion group but it is not real active. Maybe he can develope something here beneficial for the Carlson users. May give us a line to Carlson to let them know what we would like to see.  The company seems interested in the users opinion. While I was in class Dave Carlson dropped in. He was interested in what we thought about what we were seeing. Perhaps we can build on that and get a useable product from a company that wants to serve the Survey community. We will see what happens.

[Dent Cermak]

Represented Contour Interval, does that terminology work for you then?


sounds like your survey field practice needs to be adjusted to work better with the figures/breaklines command the better that data is collected the less you need ever edit the resulting triangles

The contour interval is usually 1 foot giving an intermediate contour every 1 foot of vertical displacement with an Index contour every 5 feet vertically. Always a 1:5 ratio or every 5th contour being an index contour..

[mjfarrell]

yes, and even though it may make your cartographic hair stand on end, it is not technically incorrect to state that the contours are shown with a major contour index of 25 meters then.

[Dent Cermak]

yes, and even though it may make your cartographic hair stand on end, it is not technically incorrect to state that the contours are shown with a major contour index of 25 meters then.

"Major Contours" are solely the invention of programmers that did not know the correct nomenclature. Too lazy to look it up I guess. That term is creeping into today's classroom unfortunately. If you do not care enough about your craft to learn the proper nomenclature, that's fine. I call it an 'indicator". I have never hired an applicant that fails my "indicators". They are signs of sloppiness in my opinion. I do not have time for sloppy people or carto-wannabes.
Index contours are nothing more than every 5th contour line. They are the "index marker". Why give them 2 names? That is silly. And the 4 lines inbetween each index are intermediate contours for obvious reason.
They say the most dangerous thing in the world is a new Lieutenant with a map. Yet even that Lt. knows the proper namee of the contour lines. Passing the Map reading text is required for a commission. "Major" and "Minor" contours are not answers on that test.
You can call them what ever you want, but as a cartographer , I prefer to use the correct nomenclature as I ply my craft, as I have done for the past 40 years building a reputation as to the quality of my work.

[mjfarrell]

yes, and a good beer wench will never call a bar towel a rag...