Topic: XRef binding

[jonesy]

Hi all

I have a quick question.
I have about 200 drawings to get out by the 5th may, and each drawing has 4 or 5 xrefs attached/overlayed.
Our network is/can be incredibly slow, so its taking forever to open-bind-save. Does anyone know of a way that can automate the process reliably.

Many thanks in advance
T

[CADaver]

Hi all

I have a quick question.
I have about 200 drawings to get out by the 5th may, and each drawing has 4 or 5 xrefs attached/overlayed.
Our network is/can be incredibly slow, so its taking forever to open-bind-save. Does anyone know of a way that can automate the process reliably.

Many thanks in advance
T

grrrr...... never mind

DWGTrueView will batch the process under the "Convert" function.

[rkmcswain]

eTransmit includes the ability to bind xrefs. I'm not quite sure of the exact procedure, but you may have to "eTransmit" the drawings to a temporary location and then move them back.

[jonesy]

Hi all

I have a quick question.
I have about 200 drawings to get out by the 5th may, and each drawing has 4 or 5 xrefs attached/overlayed.
Our network is/can be incredibly slow, so its taking forever to open-bind-save. Does anyone know of a way that can automate the process reliably.

Many thanks in advance
T

grrrr...... never mind

DWGTrueView will batch the process under the "Convert" function.

I'm sorry to make you Grrr... Randy, specially first thing in the morning... But what the client wants the client gets
However, for future reference, could you let me in on how you send your drawings to the client, so maybe we'd be in a position to change their mind for a future issue.

Thanks for the TrueView, I'll look into that too

T

[daron]

The best way to send files to clients is to use eTransmit. It captures all your needed files into a zip file, including unique fonts files and anything else you might want to send. It also puts xrefs with folder structure in said file. Zip it, email it and be done. You can also add a note to them for how to use all the files. I believe the grrr would be because he's biting his tongue on binding xrefs. What you should do about that is time how long it takes to bind and save and send all these files, take the hourly cost you spent on them, multiply by 2, and send them the bill explaining that they just costed you twice the amount of work by binding these files and taking you away from other pressing work that could've been accomplished had they allowed you to just eTransmit the files with xrefs intact.

[alanjt]

The best way to send files to clients is to use eTransmit. It captures all your needed files into a zip file, including unique fonts files and anything else you might want to send. It also puts xrefs with folder structure in said file. Zip it, email it and be done. You can also add a note to them for how to use all the files. I believe the grrr would be because he's biting his tongue on binding xrefs. What you should do about that is time how long it takes to bind and save and send all these files, take the hourly cost you spent on them, multiply by 2, and send them the bill explaining that they just costed you twice the amount of work by binding these files and taking you away from other pressing work that could've been accomplished had they allowed you to just eTransmit the files with xrefs intact.

i agree with daron 100%

for your (crazy) client, you could just batch:

Code: [Select]

(setvar "bindtype" 1)
(command "-xref" "b" "*" )
(setvar "bindtype" 0)
(command "qsave")
(command "quit")

[jonesy]

At my last place we used eTransmit almost exclusively, but this client has asked for it to be sent that way. There are no special fonts, shapes etc, so its just the drawing file to consider, so that stops much of the problems.
But everything comes down to what the client wants/willing to pay for, not necessarily how we want to do it
Maybe if we get repeat business, we'll try to talk them into using eTransmit.

[mjfarrell]

Perhaps ask them why they prefer to be all bound up like that?  Perhaps this a matter of just not knowing or wanting to know there might be other ways to handle the data. Just make it sound like you are the one with the pointy hat on, and not them.

[ronjonp]

Be aware that if you have any nested xrefs in these files, they will not bind.

[daron]

By nested xref, you mean "parent/child/grandchild"? IOW, the main drawing contains an xref that also contains its own xref? Be sure to bind that grandchild first. Like I said, track it, chart it and charge them double for your effort. They'll change their tune real quick.

[ronjonp]

By nested xref, you mean "parent/child/grandchild"? IOW, the main drawing contains an xref that also contains its own xref?...

Yes

[Guest]

We have a policy to NOT bind any xrefs when we send them out (unless specifically asked begged to do so).

Our reason is simple.  Let's say you have a 5MB xref that is referenced into 10 drawings.  Those 10 drawings, once the xref is bound, grow rather large in size.  So instead of having 10 files of 100KB and one 5MB file, you now essentially have 10 5MB files.  If you're sending the files via an FTP site or email, the person on the other end will soon become slightly "enraged" with 1) the file size and 2) the time it takes to download.

We may save the files as 2004 or earlier and automatically explode AEC objects for the client, but other than that, we leave the files "as-is" and give them a list of the drawings that they need to be concerned with.  And as long as the xrefs are in the same folder as the host drawing, the host drawing will find the xrefs and display them properly.

[CADaver]

I'm sorry to make you Grrr... Randy, specially first thing in the morning... But what the client wants the client gets
However, for future reference, could you let me in on how you send your drawings to the client, so maybe we'd be in a position to change their mind for a future issue.

Thanks for the TrueView, I'll look into that too

T

I was "grrr...ing" at the client.  We've had a couple of those, we charge an additional $25 per file (project file count, whether they have XREFs or not) to bind XREFs at job completion, and we so state in the contract documents at the start of the job.  Considering that it is common for us to have thirty to fifty thousand or more files on a project, the client usually chokes on the seven figure bill for making intelligent files stupid.

We use eTransmit in a batch process to send all files to a specific directory.  Once there we run a second batch on ALL the files there to do a general cleanup, massive purge, remove all "unloaded" xrefs, and create a pdf of all layout tabs based on a pre-determined pagesetup.  If we know the client's pagesetup structure, we'll add it at this time as well.

Sometimes, as a final sanity check prior to zipping for transmittal, I run DWGTrueConvert on the entire directory to "Check and fix errors" and convert the files to the customer's version of AutoCAD. 

For those that don't have a batch process like ours, DWGTrueConvert (contained in DWGTrueView) will do much of the above without eating a seat of the application.  It won't purge or remove unloaded xrefs, but it will "Check and fix errors", set the plotter to "none", replace pagesetups, it'll even bind all the xrefs.

[Guest]

I'm sorry to make you Grrr... Randy, specially first thing in the morning... But what the client wants the client gets
However, for future reference, could you let me in on how you send your drawings to the client, so maybe we'd be in a position to change their mind for a future issue.

Thanks for the TrueView, I'll look into that too

T

I was "grrr...ing" at the client.  We've had a couple of those, we charge an additional $25 per file (project file count, whether they have XREFs or not) to bind XREFs at job completion, and we so state in the contract documents at the start of the job.  Considering that it is common for us to have thirty to fifty thousand or more files on a project, the client usually chokes on the seven figure bill for making intelligent files stupid.

We use eTransmit in a batch process to send all files to a specific directory.  Once there we run a second batch on ALL the files there to do a general cleanup, massive purge, remove all "unloaded" xrefs, and create a pdf of all layout tabs based on a pre-determined pagesetup.  If we know the client's pagesetup structure, we'll add it at this time as well.

Sometimes, as a final sanity check prior to zipping for transmittal, I run DWGTrueConvert on the entire directory to "Check and fix errors" and convert the files to the customer's version of AutoCAD. 

For those that don't have a batch process like ours, DWGTrueConvert (contained in DWGTrueView) will do much of the above without eating a seat of the application.  It won't purge or remove unloaded xrefs, but it will "Check and fix errors", set the plotter to "none", replace pagesetups, it'll even bind all the xrefs.

Whoa, whoa, whoa!!  Back the truck up!!!  30-50 THOUSAND files??!?  Is each line an xref?!??   

What in the holy hell.....?!?

[CADaver]

Whoa, whoa, whoa!!  Back the truck up!!!  30-50 THOUSAND files??!?  Is each line an xref?!??   
What in the holy hell.....?!?

That's a file count for a project, not a count of xref's in a file.  A good two-thirds or more of our files contain at least one reference to something, some may have two or three hundred or more.  Does that seem like a lot? This facility will have over ten thousand piping line numbers with two to four iso drawings each.  By the end we may be approaching a hundred thousand drawings in all disciplines, I think the current estimate is above eighty-eight thousand. This model has just under four hundred xrefs and we haven't yet reached the thrity percent model review.

[Guest]

Whoa, whoa, whoa!!  Back the truck up!!!  30-50 THOUSAND files??!?  Is each line an xref?!??   
What in the holy hell.....?!?

...Does that seem like a lot?...

Uh, yeah!!  That's like... WOW!!  The most I've ever had to deal with is 20... maybe.

<side note> Can I get a block of one of those 3D cranes? Those are schweet!! </side note>

[CADaver]

Whoa, whoa, whoa!!  Back the truck up!!!  30-50 THOUSAND files??!?  Is each line an xref?!??   
What in the holy hell.....?!?

...Does that seem like a lot?...

Uh, yeah!!  That's like... WOW!!  The most I've ever had to deal with is 20... maybe.

<side note> Can I get a block of one of those 3D cranes? Those are schweet!! </side note>

Those are PDS graphics models.  I've tried several different ways to get them into AutoCAD through Microstation, but they still lose the surfaces and drop to 3dlines.  I have a guy that used to work for Intergraph, working for me now and he's looking into the conversion.  if anyone here has a clue or a guess, I'll give it a shot??

[Didge]

we charge an additional $25 per file

200 x $25, blimey - I'll script the binding for half that price Tracey, looks like the drinks are on me guys.

Edit: That cost initially seemed excessive as we would normally charge clients at our usual hourly rate, in hindsight however charging for additional services such as this might actually make clients think twice before making similar requests. The customer is always right, as long as they're prepared to pay for the privilege.

[CADaver]

200 x $25, blimey - I'll script the binding for half that price Tracey, looks like the drinks are on me guys.

We batch the process through DWGTrueView->DWGConvert, which will do a directory of several thousand files in just a few minutes.  The charge is an "aggravation" fee.

Edit: That cost initially seemed excessive as we would normally charge clients at our usual hourly rate, in hindsight however charging for additional services such as this might actually make clients think twice before making similar requests. The customer is always right, as long as they're prepared to pay for the privilege.

Bingo, more often than not someone says, "Bind all the XREF's" without "thinking" about the process and what XREF's are for.  The fee makes them ask the question, we educate them (free), then they can make the choice with better info.  Usually, the response is "Never mind, we're okay as is."

[Bryco]

Be aware that if you have any nested xrefs in these files, they will not bind.

ronjonp I just tested an xref nested 2 deep and it bound fine.

[CADaver]

Be aware that if you have any nested xrefs in these files, they will not bind.

ronjonp I just tested an xref nested 2 deep and it bound fine.

The parent may not bind

[jonesy]

Thanks all for help and advice.
All drawings are now ready to send to the client.

[t-bear]

You billed them for it, I hope!!  :lmao:hope!

[jonesy]

It will be... in a round about way... woo-hoo, free swamp-time

But in all seriousness, I'm hoping that allowances were built into the contract.