TheSwamp
CAD Forums => CAD General => Topic started by: craigr on October 01, 2007, 11:46:50 AM
-
Just for curiosity's sake....
What would be the problem with making ALL Lines PLines?
This way one could control the line width on screen & printing.
craigr
-
Just for curiosity's sake....
What would be the problem with making ALL Lines PLines?
This way one could control the line width on screen & printing.
craigr
If the PLINE has a width, I'm stuck with it in an XREF. I'd prefer controlling the weight with the layer and CTB/STB's. That way I can plot anything I want at a multitude of weights and screens.
-
I haven't drawn a "line" since 91'.
-
But if you control only the Linewight, the line appears as a thickness of 0 (or is it 1). You don't have a 'thick' line in your dwg.
We use a linewidth of .02 for all Piping in our dwgs. I then join all I can so that if I need to move the system up an inch or so in my dwg, there is much less clicking to make sure I grab the entire system.
craigr
-
I'm embarrassed to admit it, especially amongst all of you CAD gurus, but...
I know little about what PLines are REALLY for, other than I can make a 'thick' line with them.
craigr
-
I do not use it but, you can play with the "LineWeight" by:
Click on the Format tab => go to the lineweight section => click on the Display lineweight
See, if helps...
-
I'm embarrassed to admit it, especially amongst all of you CAD gurus, but...
I know little about what PLines are REALLY for, other than I can make a 'thick' line with them.
craigr
I'm like DGCS, I don't draw lines. I have a hotkey that triggers the 'pline' command assigned to one of the extra buttons on my mouse, and that's all I use to draw with.
The benefits for me are many.
1) When hatching, I automatically have a closed boundary with no chance of mistakes that leave gaps. It is a closed boundary I can select, rather than clicking a point and hoping Autocad doesn't crash trying to calculate the imaginary boundary. This also leaves the hatch associative 99% of the time, and allows the hatch to stretch along with any stretches I apply to that polyline, saving repetitive processes.
2) There are times when we override the thickness for similar reasons.
3a) When working in 3D, a closed polyline will result in a solid when extruding, whereas a simple loop of lines will result in faces, last time I checked. Not desirable for me.
3b) When a solid is created by extruding a closed polyline, you can edit the profile of the extruded solid by using the grips from the original polyline.
4) Don't have to worry about forgetting to select a segment, like you said, when moving. If you have a polyline that goes through a hundred other objects that makes it impossible to use a left-to-right or right-to-left selection window... you don't have to worry about going through and picking each line segment... it's all one big pline.
5) Area, perimeter, and other geometry calculations are in the properties window already, or available with a quick tap of the 'LIst' command.
6) eh there's probably quite a lot more that have become so second nature that I can't think of them at the moment, but this is all that comes off the top of my head.
-
I'm embarrassed to admit it, especially amongst all of you CAD gurus, but...
I know little about what PLines are REALLY for, other than I can make a 'thick' line with them.
craigr
I use my own customization routines, for most of the type of work I do (architectural)
One, of the main reasons I always use lines (and not saying that I do not use plines) is that in this type of work, when you only have the vanilla version, is that you have to use the offset command and most of the times, you will need just a single segment of the whole pline, and have to be careful to erase the unwanted offset segments or explode the pline before doing the offset...
If I need, to have all my closed areas formed by lines and arcs, I might use the pedit with the join or my own routines for that.
It will depend on the type of work you produce.
hth.
-
For me it depends on what you are drawing. Sometimes I hate when people use plines for no good reason. If it is only going to have one segment, why make it a pline? When I go to offset a single segment, when I would have used a line there, and come to find out it's a pline... :pissed:
So it's all in how you draw. Sometimes plines are the way to go, and sometimes lines are the way to go. It's AutoCAD, 20 million ways to get the same idea across.
-
oh yea, like Luis alluded to... I actually like the behavior of offsetting a close polyline, rather than closed line segments. For example, the difference between using offset on a rectangle, and then using offset on an exploded rectangle (4 lines)... using fillet with the radius set to 0 is a pain sometimes.
-
For me it depends on what you are drawing. Sometimes I hate when people use plines for no good reason. If it is only going to have one segment, why make it a pline? When I go to offset a single segment, when I would have used a line there, and come to find out it's a pline... :pissed:
That's how I draw, simply because I have 'pline' mapped to the thumb button on my mouse... Why would it matter if you're offsetting a single pline segment, or a line?
So it's all in how you draw. Sometimes plines are the way to go, and sometimes lines are the way to go. It's AutoCAD, 20 million ways to get the same idea across.
That ends up being the final mantra, in the end, it seems :-)
-
Why would it matter if you're offsetting a single pline segment, or a line?
It's the situations that Luis mentioned. Not offsetting a single segment of a one segment pline, but a single segment of a 50 segment pline.
-
Two things pop out to me.
1) Each segment of a pline can have different and or varying widths.
2) The problem with offsetting a segment of a pline can be overcome with a little programming magic, which I believe has been asked here previously so as not to have to start from scratch. If memory serves at all, I believe Luis came up with a winner on that topic.
-
Why would it matter if you're offsetting a single pline segment, or a line?
It's the situations that Luis mentioned. Not offsetting a single segment of a one segment pline, but a single segment of a 50 segment pline.
My mistake, I misunderstood your statement to read that you were angered when you offset a single segment, and it's a pline, rather than a line.... not a chain of segments. Alrighty then!
-
Why would it matter if you're offsetting a single pline segment, or a line?
It's the situations that Luis mentioned. Not offsetting a single segment of a one segment pline, but a single segment of a 50 segment pline.
My mistake, I misunderstood your statement to read that you were angered when you offset a single segment, and it's a pline, rather than a line.... not a chain of segments. Alrighty then!
Yea. I was reading it before I hit the post button, and was thinking I should put an 'or' as the first word for the next line, but decided I was to lazy on a Monday morning. :wink:
-
Why would it matter if you're offsetting a single pline segment, or a line?
It's the situations that Luis mentioned. Not offsetting a single segment of a one segment pline, but a single segment of a 50 segment pline.
My mistake, I misunderstood your statement to read that you were angered when you offset a single segment, and it's a pline, rather than a line.... not a chain of segments. Alrighty then!
Yea. I was reading it before I hit the post button, and was thinking I should put an 'or' as the first word for the next line, but decided I was to lazy on a Monday morning. :wink:
I hear that!
-
I haven't drawn a "line" since 91'.
I haven't drawn a line OR a Pline since '99
-
But if you control only the Linewight, the line appears as a thickness of 0 (or is it 1). You don't have a 'thick' line in your dwg.
I can make it any width I like at plotting with the CTB/STB. If the pline has width in the file, I'm stuck with it.
We use a linewidth of .02 for all Piping in our dwgs. I then join all I can so that if I need to move the system up an inch or so in my dwg, there is much less clicking to make sure I grab the entire system.
We build 'em 3D, so you may be right.
-
I'm embarrassed to admit it, especially amongst all of you CAD gurus, but...
I know little about what PLines are REALLY for, other than I can make a 'thick' line with them.
craigr
What they're REALLY for?? ... is what ever you want to use 'em for.
-
Below is what I posted in response to a similar post on one of the other newgroups.
I prefer lines for most things I draw. If I am creating something that
makes sense as one entity then I will use a pline.
I don't like plines because people still draw them with widths for
everything and then you can't control the width in other drawings when
Xrefing them in, for instance.
Lines make sense when you are needing to offset the lines and having a
single straight pline just makes no sense to me. Plines are good if you are
going to offset say a rectangle 6" to create the boundary of a wall
thickness.
Lines can be easily checked for the angle they are drawn at, plines can't.
Draw a line and a pline, list them both, what is the angle of the pline?
Length of lines can be modified with the change command, plines cannot.
Multiple lines can be brought to one point quickly with change, plines
cannot. Lines can be straightened to align with Ortho quickly with change,
plines cannot.
If I need to show the routing of tubing and I want to show a radius at each
corner then I use plines because I can fillet every corner on a pline, with
lines I have to pick over and over.
Lines have the extra grip in the middle of the line, a straight pline will
not. That extra grip comes in handy when modifying in certain situations
when using grips.
A line inherits the elevation of the object that it is snapped to. A polyline
inherits the elevation of the first point it is started at.
Start the line command, then type tan, pick an arc, notice how the line start
point will move dynamically as you move the cursor; a pline will not do that.
Use every tool in autocad properly for your situation, there are no
absolutes in using or not using plines -VS- lines, and all other commands
for that matter. Sometimes blocks are the way to go, sometimes groups,
sometimes none at all.
-
1) lwpolies make for a smaller dwg.(Not enough to worry about but it is a plus)
2) In a sloppy drawing with undesired 3d, lines tend to cause more havoc.(Look at the front view)
3) In a drawing with plenty of plines I see less multiples, (line on top of line on top of Line)
this could be related to total rookies don't bother with plines.
3) On the other hand, kentium3k makes some great points.
-
. . . On the other hand, kentium3k makes some great points.
Good points indeed. Polylines can be great tools when their use is called for, but I always found them to be more an obstacle than a help when laying out linework for a subdivision. Much of the work is offset and fillet at different distances and radii. Fillets would not work unless EVERYTHING was a polyline and then the segments would join when that was the last thing I wanted. Additionally, some of the course labeling routines would not recognize polyline segments. For that application simple lines and arcs were a much better solution.
-
How about those nifty cases where Fillet decides it should join to the far end of the polyline, rather than the end near where the user is clicking, resulting in this giant loop swooping through the drawing?
And in the Civil products, "Line/Curve from End of Object" won't work on polylines.
But polylines can be useful. Although with Civil-3D, sometimes a 3DPOLY is the one to use.
-
Although you make some good points, kentium.. many things you state about plines are very false.
-
Sadly, for those of us that had little and in some cases no official training in AutoCad, there are many commands, variables, etc. that we do not know about &/or use. - This forum helps ALOT with that.
The few classes I took in AutoCad several years ago, were very basic compared to what alot of you folks discuss. I have learned a great deal from this & the Autodesk, (to a lesser degree) forums. I also have learned alot from drawings from other companies that I have had to work on.
One problem is that like this discussion, everyone uses the tools differently for their needs. It is tough for those of us teaching ourselves NOT to learn the 'bad habits'. What a 'bad habit' is, depends on who you are talking with.
We have seen MANY disagreements on this & other discussion boards about what is the 'proper way' of setting up a drawing & how to draw it. I have found a few times, where we as a company, have been drawing wrong, (per the AutoCad community), since we started using AutoCad many years ago. These practices are tough to get changed. - Thank goodness the bosses at our company, decided to create a CAD Coordinator position, to get us all going the same direction.
As always, thanks for all of your comments. I have learned alot about plines from this discussion. Though I may be more confused than before. I didn't know there was that much to them.
craigr
-
In most cases I use plines, or on a very limited basis lines. Most of the work that I do is connected to C3D, it like to convert these objects into other things quite handily, also as a long time LDD user plines were the best choice for construction elements because of similar conversion tools.
All objects have a purpose, much like the omitted midpoint grip of the pline, however a running osnap of MID will snap to it for you.
The plines length can be properly edited using the LENGTHEN command.
To offset a single segment without programming use the snaps, and object tracking and one can draw a parallel line at the proper offset and distance very quickly.
Setting your layouts to DWT display line weights is far more sharable than adding widths to plines.
-
... many things you state about plines are very false.
hmmm... such as...??
-
... many things you state about plines are very false.
hmmm... such as...??
...people still draw them with widths for
everything...
Lines can be easily checked for the angle they are drawn at, plines can't.
Lines can be straightened to align with Ortho quickly with change,
plines cannot.
-
... As always, thanks for all of your comments. I have learned alot about plines from this discussion. Though I may be more confused than before. I didn't know there was that much to them.
craigr
I had noticed a "Pandoras Box" effect unfold in this thread as well. To each his own would apply here.
-
... As always, thanks for all of your comments. I have learned alot about plines from this discussion. Though I may be more confused than before. I didn't know there was that much to them.
craigr
I had noticed a "Pandoras Box" effect unfold in this thread as well. To each his own would apply here.
THAT is the problem though - 'To each his own' makes it tough learn to do it right.
Apparently, there ISN'T a 'right way to do it'. Or, anything having to do with CAD.
craigr
-
I often find that CAD is in no one special. There isn't so much a RIGHT way to do anything. Whatever way gets the job done suitably for your scenario is best. Now obviously the options are pretty limited in many aspects, such as there can only be so many ways to remove an oil filter... I usually wrap a rag around it twist a bar of some sort through it and then use that like a wrench, whereas other people have the fancy ring-snugging specialty wrench for that.. some people will just stab a screwdriver through the oil filter and twist it off that way. Ok so maybe I can think of a handful of ways to do even the simplest of tasks...
-
This is getting off topic, but...
I guess what I mean by 'the right way' of doing things, is how the dwgs end up.
Believe it or not, when I run across some of our OLD dwgs, different people drew with their own versions of our title block, set up with different snaps, lineweights, scale, layers, etc...
It was HORRIBLE to get people to stop stealing parts from these OLD dwgs that were basically 'crap'.
I don't care how someone draws a square, but it better be to our standard snap, on the correct layer, on our standard title block with it's settings not changed.
Setting up these 'standards' were tough with limited knowledge of what the rest of the world does.
craigr
-
craigr, you describe pretty much the same scenario I came into. When I came here we had actual location of standard drawings, title block, blocks, notes, specs, anything. Whenever someone needed something and didn't know where to find it, you basically yelled through the office asking where it is, and someone would shout back a job number to look in, and you'd go and copy it.
They had a folder on the server for color tables, title blocks, and such, but it was not updated since they made it, and all the changes they made over time to their title block and color table were not saved back to the original... basically everyone had a different color table saved to their computer, and each job had a differently evolved title block.
I've made a pretty good dent in the practices here, keeping everyone copying NOT from old jobs at all, but from an independent and well maintained set of standard drawings/setups... I'm in the process of creating a block library so I can go around and slap some tool pallets on people's computers and show them what efficiency can do to their processes. I'm excited but I wish I had more time to devote to such endevours.
Don't let it get you down... I imagine that a good percentage of what is touted around here isn't actually PRACTICED universally at that person's place of employment, but is more of an IDEAL, and a GOAL...
-
I've worked for companies that have "Orientation" meetings when you first arrive. They hand out their "CAD Standards" books, and go over some of the main topics. I still have a few of the major ones, ie. General Motors, Commonwealth Edison, General Electric, each book contains from 100 to 200 pages of standards call outs. I've tried incorporating the logical standards that applied to what a companies needs are, and it's no easy task. Knowing what the rest of the world does helps, but their will always be exceptions. In some cases their is a standard as to when a pline is used and how to use it. GM used to be very strict on their entity policies.
In other words, in order to create a company standard the creator MUST have an advanced knowledge of the industry and CAD/Drafting discipline they're creating the standard for, and in some cases, plines are a part of the standard.
-
Knowing what the rest of the world does helps, but their will always be exceptions. In some cases their is a standard as to when a pline is used and how to use it. GM used to be very strict on their entity policies.
From what I've seen, that's the sort of "standard" that causes more problems than it solves. The standard becomes so thick and bloated that it becomes nearly impossible to keep up-to-date, and it the users largely start to ignore it. The only standards that I've seen to be effective are relatively loose, dictating "big picture" things, and not details of how to perform every task. When a standard starts doing things like dictating how and when to use a polyline, it has overstepped its usefulness and entered the realm of "bloated bureaucracy".
So far, I've found nothing as effective as taking advantage of things like templates, tool palettes, etc., to make it easier to follow the standards than to not. And of course, the program is evolving. The new Styles used in some of the vertical apps encapsulate much of what historically has gone into standards, except in a far more-useful manner than a book that is difficult to maintain and which people tend to ignore.
-
'in order to create a company standard the creator MUST have an advanced knowledge of the industry and CAD/Drafting discipline they're creating the standard for'
Unfortunately, the pay scale here is not high enough here to pay for someone with an advanced knowledge of AutoCad. I can't see this EVER changing.
Our CAD dwgs a pretty basic 2D & once everything is set up, the actual drawing part is pretty simple. It's 'having an advanced knowledge of the industry' (our industry) and knowing what you are drawing that for some people is the tough part.
craigr
-
than a book that is difficult to maintain and which people tend to ignore.
That is almost comical.
The last guy we hired to be a CAD Monkey, I gave him our standards book to review, (which he spent a day doing).
A couple of months later he told me he had never seen it.
He is gone now.
craigr
-
From what I've seen, that's the sort of "standard" that causes more problems than it solves.
Most of these micro-managing techniques that I was speaking of, are from General Motors Electro-Motive Corp. where they NEED to have strcitly followed guidelines and have to standardize everything to the nth degree, as they are building locomotives using an extremely robust CAD package like Unigraphics, and having to do this with a revolving door for contract personnel. For a simple shop, or even a large shop using a somewhat less robust (albeit useful for the job at hand) Cad package, lets say... AutoCad, micro-managing the standards would not be impossible, but would not be efficient. I guess what my long windedness is trying to say is, I agree.
-
From what I've seen, that's the sort of "standard" that causes more problems than it solves.
... AutoCad, micro-managing the standards would not be impossible, but would not be efficient. I guess what my long windedness is trying to say is, I agree.
I completely agree with your statement. Our philosophy is that we don't care *HOW* you draw it so long as it fits the clients standards (so they don't whine) and you do it fast and accurate enough we make money (so the owner doesn't whine). Within that framework, I don't care if you undefine all your commands and draw with the moniter taped to the wall sideways. Of course if you customize your own stuff, then you maintain it yourself too! I provide over 1000 custom tools the drafter can use or ignore to thier hearts content, just don't whine if you don't use them and things go South for yourself. ^-^
-
... many things you state about plines are very false.
hmmm... such as...??
...people still draw them with widths for
everything...
Lines can be easily checked for the angle they are drawn at, plines can't.
Lines can be straightened to align with Ortho quickly with change,
plines cannot.
Hmmm, what is the angle of the pline in the following Listing of a Line and a Pline?
Select objects: 1 found, 2 total
Select objects:
LINE Layer: "0"
Space: Model space
Handle = 3354
from point, X=1052.4708 Y= 623.1223 Z= 0.0000
to point, X=1289.4988 Y= 782.4774 Z= 0.0000
Length = 285.6156, Angle in XY Plane = 34
Delta X = 237.0279, Delta Y = 159.3551, Delta Z = 0.0000
LWPOLYLINE Layer: "0"
Space: Model space
Handle = 3355
Open
Constant width 0.0000
area 0.0000
length 303.3308
at point X=1114.9600 Y= 521.9103 Z= 0.0000
at point X=1358.4524 Y= 702.7999 Z= 0.0000
This next one is using the Change command to relocate an end point. The first is the line (and the end point moves), the second a pline.
Command: CHANGE
Select objects: 1 found
Select objects: Specify change point or [Properties]:
Command: CHANGE
Select objects: 1 found
Select objects: Specify change point or [Properties]: No changeable object
selected
-
You said it's not easy to see what angle a pline is drawn at... you didn't say I had to tie my hands by limiting myself to only reading the list output.
Same with the change, thing... I don't ever use 'change'
-
... As always, thanks for all of your comments. I have learned alot about plines from this discussion. Though I may be more confused than before. I didn't know there was that much to them.
craigr
I had noticed a "Pandoras Box" effect unfold in this thread as well. To each his own would apply here.
THAT is the problem though - 'To each his own' makes it tough learn to do it right.
Apparently, there ISN'T a 'right way to do it'. Or, anything having to do with CAD.
craigr
As it has been mention there are a lot of different ways to do one thing in CAD (in life as well). One way is only more efficient "at the particular moment in time". I always try to know a couple different ways of doing something becuase sometimes there will be something preventing you from accomplishing your task with your standard way of doing aka "habit".
my $0.02
-
... many things you state about plines are very false.
hmmm... such as...??
...people still draw them with widths for
everything...
Lines can be easily checked for the angle they are drawn at, plines can't.
Lines can be straightened to align with Ortho quickly with change,
plines cannot.
Sure, I should have said 'some' people still draw them with widths. Very nitpicky on your part.
Please draw a pline and a line, use the list command. Now what angle is the pline. You left out an important part of the paragraph, the second sentence where I say to use list. How do you just as easily check the angle of a pline as you can with a line?
Plines CANNOT be manipulated with the CHANGE command as a line can. Try it for yourself.
-
I don't mean to dispute the facts you state, but merely their validity.
-
I don't mean to dispute the facts you state, but merely their validity.
When you say "... many things you state about plines are very false." that IS disputing the facts.....now, had you said something like "I don't agree with some of these things because....." and included how you CAN do the same thing with plines then I wouldn't be questioning your statement. Just because YOU don't use those methods, doesn't mean a thousand other people don't.
-
I don't mean to dispute the facts you state, but merely their validity.
When you say "... many things you state about plines are very false." that IS disputing the facts.....now, had you said something like "I don't agree with some of these things because....." and included how you CAN do the same thing with plines then I wouldn't be questioning your statement. Just because YOU don't use those methods, doesn't mean a thousand other people don't.
I didn't intend to start a bicker fest over semantics.
-
I don't mean to dispute the facts you state, but merely their validity.
Please tell us how you quickly check the angle of a pline?
dimension...
Please tell us why knowing that lines can be manipulated with the change command and plines cannot is not valid?
The fact that you don't use the change command makes it invalid?
It's invalid as a reason to not use plines, not to invalidate the existence of lines, by any means. I just found your post to be incredibly misrepresentative to working with plines.
-
*bickerfest smiley* Yaaayyyyy!
-
I didn't intend to start a bicker fest over semantics.
Ok, what have you done with Josh?
:-D
-
[
It's invalid as a reason to not use plines, not to invalidate the existence of lines, by any means. I just found your post to be incredibly misrepresentative to working with plines.
[/quote]
There's your whole problem, I was simply pointing out the differences between plines and lines. I was not advocating lines over plines, and if you re-read that post with out prejudice I think you will agree. I said in the post that I use plines and lines, and that everyone needs to evaluate what is best for them and go with it.
It was not "incredibly misrepresentative to working with plines", because (see above).
-
I got the drift that if I were an ..... wow nevermind... I really don't care enough to continue.
Sorry.
-
I made this popcorn for nuthin.
-
I made this popcorn for nuthin.
yep.... I was waiting for something like this:
http://discussion.autodesk.com/thread.jspa?threadID=613517
At least..... :evil:
go back to work.... yea right....
-
Thanks for the link Louis, made my popcorn justifyable, and I learned a new word: self-aggrandizement
:-)
-
Thanks for the link Louis, made my popcorn justifyable, and I learned a new word: self-aggrandizement
:-)
ditto.. I threw in the obligitory comment...
http://www.donotfeedtheenergybeast.com/
Please Don't Feed The Energy Beast!
..of course I guess if it were really obligitory, 99% of forum topics would have that multiple times throughout those threads.
-
You said it's not easy to see what angle a pline is drawn at... you didn't say I had to tie my hands by limiting myself to only reading the list output.
Same with the change, thing... I don't ever use 'change'
CHANGE is a very powerful command, in combination with a DRAG modifier even more so..
-
You said it's not easy to see what angle a pline is drawn at... you didn't say I had to tie my hands by limiting myself to only reading the list output.
Same with the change, thing... I don't ever use 'change'
However you posted that what he said was false. It was not flase, just not the way you do it.
BTW CHANGE is a very powerful command, in combination with a DRAG modifier even more so..
and the saga continues.... :-D
-
and the saga continues.... :-D
Hey DCG!! Stop hogging the popcorn.
-
and the saga continues.... :-D
Hey DCG!! Stop hogging the popcorn.
Sorry, here. More butter?
-
You said it's not easy to see what angle a pline is drawn at... you didn't say I had to tie my hands by limiting myself to only reading the list output.
Same with the change, thing... I don't ever use 'change'
CHANGE is a very powerful command, in combination with a DRAG modifier even more so..
I'm not saying it's not a useful command. I just said I don't use it. I mean you said you haven't drawn a line or pline since '99, but that doesn't mean they're not valid entities that are useful. Of course I'm not sure WHY you haven't drawn them..
-
I've never used Change either.
-
I haven't drawn a line OR a Pline since '99
I didn't know there were other options than PLines & Lines.
I guess I have more to investigate.
craigr
-
I haven't drawn a line OR a Pline since '99
I didn't know there were other options than PLines & Lines.
I guess I have more to investigate.
craigr
I think he just sticks to solids... or is just a "consultant" now... :-D
-
I didn't know there were other options than PLines & Lines.
lwpline????
-
That or he's one of those crazy nutball designers that uses nothing but splines and he's been working on the willy wonka petroleum facility since 1999.
Personally I hope this is the case :lmao:
-
:-o :-o :-o
-
he's been working on the willy wonka petroleum facility since 1999.
Cadaver..... will work for Gobstoppers.
-
I haven't drawn a line OR a Pline since '99
I didn't know there were other options than PLines & Lines.
I guess I have more to investigate.
craigr
3D blocks constructed with 3dsolids, haven't drawn a line, or Pline (lw or otherwise) or used OFFSET, TRIM, LENGTHEN, or a couple dozen other commands in quite some time.
-
he's been working on the willy wonka petroleum facility since 1999.
Cadaver..... will work for Gobstoppers.
gaak....